Inner Tubing a Front Runner Tire

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DC 340

DC 340

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After years I would like to find solution to keeping Phoenix front runner tires from going flat after several days. I would like to inner tube them and be done with it. Probably Monocoque 2-piece rims causing the leak. I have Phoenix 4.5/26.0-15 tires on now, thinking of going to 4.5/24.0-15s. They are tubeless tires.

A metal stem tube (for NHRA rules I believe) or any for that matter of this size seems difficult to find. Can anyone steer me? Here's the worst offender. Been flat for so long the tire just sucks and needs replacing. My rears are already tubed.

IMG_20230516_180645.jpg
 
Rub the inside of the tire down with a good amount of Dawn or Palmolive dish washing liquid and they will hold air. We do it with tubeless slicks and front runners. Also when using nitrogen in the sprint car tires to prevent leaks causing diameter change..
 
They make tubes for the front runners and I
had to put them on my Superstocker as the Bogarts
were driving me crazy.
I got them at Summit as I recall.
 
Last edited:
I tubed my Centerlines after they were found leaking out the hub. I suppose I could have window seam sealed the center seam but found the tubes also prevented the stems from leaking around the slightly corroded valve stem holes. Did I mention these were old Centerlines?
 
Spray down the outside of the tire with soapy water and let them sit a little. You'll find the air is coming out all over the side walls. Especially where they are stamped.

Rubbing the soap inside will seal them. You will see little foam bubble spots all over the tire the longer they sit the bigger the more the foam grows. I thought of tubes but that defeats the purpose of lightweight tires and rims .

The Guy we were getting our sprint car tires off of told us about this trick. We were using nitrogen and it gets quite expensive when it leaks out . Also the tire diameter from losing pressure defeats the purpose of losing using nitrogen to prevent tire grow from air temperature in the tire changing from heat. We use to run tubes not anymore. Waist of money.
 
Is that slime stuff worth a flip? Does it unbalance a car tire, is it NHRA legal? I used to run that all the time in my mountain bike tires.
 
At least it's not flammable like the old (Fix a Flat)
You need to spin the tire with the slime to distribute evenly.
 
The soap you rub it on evenly on the fronts and let it get sticky. On the rears we would rub the soap on and mount the tires then do a good burnout and get the tires hot.
 
Nitrogen is not expensive. Just buy your own tank. Nitrogen not only has larger molecules so it doesn't leak through the liner as quickly as Oxygen which has smaller molecules, it is also dry and retards corrosion inside the tire/rim assembly.
Aluminum and magnesium are subject to oxidation corrosion (which means reacting to oxygen).
Nitrogen is non-reactive.
Locking stems are required in case of the tire rotating on the rim which if tube type would want to rip the stem from the tube. Bead locks/screws are a great idea no matter what type of tire you run.
On a street application it is not recommended to run a tube in a tubeless tire because the inner liners are different.
A tube type tire is constructed with a smooth inner liner to minimize friction/heat build up between the tube and the liner. Also normally a Talc like substance is used between them.
Tubeless tires have ribbed, textured liners which are not compatible with tubes.
 
Take the weight off the tires when you are not driving/racing it and fill when you are going to use it.
Or buy new tires.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Spray down the outside of the tire with soapy water and let them sit a little. You'll find the air is coming out all over the side walls. Especially where they are stamped.

Rubbing the soap inside will seal them. You will see little foam bubble spots all over the tire the longer they sit the bigger the more the foam grows. I thought of tubes but that defeats the purpose of lightweight tires and rims .

The Guy we were getting our sprint car tires off of told us about this trick. We were using nitrogen and it gets quite expensive when it leaks out . Also the tire diameter from losing pressure defeats the purpose of losing using nitrogen to prevent tire grow from air temperature in the tire changing from heat. We use to run tubes not anymore. Waist of money.
Click to expand...
drag racers have been using dawn dish w.liquid for 50 or more yrs ., it works well most of the time ,if your tires are checked and cracked on the out side , I doubt it will work =tube or replacement time ...
 
famous bob said:
drag racers have been using dawn dish w.liquid for 50 or more yrs ., it works well most of the time ,if your tires are checked and cracked on the out side , I doubt it will work =tube or replacement time ...
Click to expand...
Checked or cracked tires can't be used on cars going 150 + mph. That would be a catastrophe guaranteed to happen .
 
never
MoparLeo said:
Nitrogen is not expensive. Just buy your own tank. Nitrogen not only has larger molecules so it doesn't leak through the liner as quickly as Oxygen which has smaller molecules, it is also dry and retards corrosion inside the tire/rim assembly.
Aluminum and magnesium are subject to oxidation corrosion (which means reacting to oxygen).
Nitrogen is non-reactive.
Locking stems are required in case of the tire rotating on the rim which if tube type would want to rip the stem from the tube. Bead locks/screws are a great idea no matter what type of tire you run.
On a street application it is not recommended to run a tube in a tubeless tire because the inner liners are different.
A tube type tire is constructed with a smooth inner liner to minimize friction/heat build up between the tube and the liner. Also normally a Talc like substance is used between them.
Tubeless tires have ribbed, textured liners which are not compatible with tubes.
Click to expand...
never heard that about tubes in tubeless tires , I have done it occasionally all my life and never given that a thot , and never had a problem .
I did always drill a couple of 1/8 '' holes in the tire tread so it wouldn`t try to hold air, which would eventually leak out if the tire was bad , creating a low tire when it did ....
 
I appreciate all the info here. As of yet I have not determined where mine are leaking but will do so once I have new front tires and get the wheels off the car. If they are leaking between the two wheel halves (as I suspect), then I am still inclined to inner tube these fronts as opposed to attempting to reseal that interface.

Regarding NHRA rules, I looked at the rule book this morning and it states "Metal, screw-in valve stems mandatory in tubeless tires, front and rear, on vehicles running 11.99 or quicker; unless OEM tire pressure monitor sensor is used." It does not appear to require metal valve stems in tubed tires. It doesn't seem to address tubed tires at all.

So I found a Coker front runner inner tube, #85363, that might be sized correctly for what I would need. It has a rubber valve stem. I am thinking this would meet the rules. I guess one could argue that my tires are labeled tubeless, but they are not tubeless once I insert an inner tube. Any comments are welcome. Here's the link to this inner tube:

Coker Tire 85363 Tube for 15 & 16 Inch Front Runner Tires
 
I started in the tire business in 1973 and many tires were tube type, mainly imports with wire wheels. I have seen what running a tube in a tubeless tire did to the tubes when we changed tires on them. We got warnings from the tire manufacturers regarding running tubes in their tires and the risks involved.
Not many tube type tire applications now a days except for some performance and very old ( pre tubeless rims) classic cars.
 
Metal screw in type valve stem is all that's required. Don't run a tube on a tubeless tire. And I absolutely agree the wheel is leaking between the two halves. Try to seal it or send it back. I sent back a Weld Prostar and got it replaced under warranty.
 
Sometimes the Dish Soap works but not always
The tubes is not extremely heavy and have never
had it questioned even by the tech guys who do not
care for me much.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Spray down the outside of the tire with soapy water and let them sit a little. You'll find the air is coming out all over the side walls. Especially where they are stamped.
Click to expand...
You are exactly right! I soaped the outside of both front tires. The worst offender had a leaky valve stem but also showed leakage through the sidewalls. The other front runner also showed leaky sidewalls. Here's the second tire. I soaped it, rinsed it over and over, and set it aside to dry. Soap continued to bleed out from the sidewalls showing the sidewalls do leak.

There was no leak between rim halves that I could find. So, I am going to try the soap method without tubes when new tires get here. Thanks!

IMG_20230524_170144.jpg
 
I did a long post on how to prep tires on Abodiesonly so they Dont leak. My tires stay up all winter without adding air. It’s a process but one that works.
 
my saltflats buds use ivory cream dish soap full strength brushed on the insides of their tires .
 
. Palmolive is what many use. I use Dawn regular. Worked the best for me on all the sprint car tires and the slicks and front runners on my Duster.
I just used a damp cloth , Squirted it in straight out of the bottle in the tire and wiped it around evenly so its slick and shiny. .
 
pittsburghracer said:
I did a long post on how to prep tires on Abodiesonly so they Dont leak. My tires stay up all winter without adding air. It’s a process but one that works.
Click to expand...
I did a search and found your thread. Very interesting. I appreciate!
 
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