Installed measurement needed

New Hemi Engine Swaps

  1. 68cuda408

    68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I'm starting the process of converting my 408 to a 6.1/426. Can anyone give me the measurement from the intake mounting surface or an aftermarket intake top, to the hood line. Preferably in a 67-69 Barracuda. I have no inner fenders so I need either the intake surface to a hole in the hood or to a bar laid across the top of the fenders. I'll assume my HDK front end will have the engine at stock height. I'm looking to use the Holley GenIII hi-ram and need to know if it will fit under my existing scoop.
    Thanks,
    Keith
     
  2. 408 swinger

    408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I ran a 6.1/426 in a 74 Swinger. I have the Ritter/Drag Pak 4150 intake with 4150 to 4500 adapter and 1050 Dominator. Fit under a modern looking pro stock style scoop. By comparison, we have a 5.7 in my son's 73 Scamp with the Arrow/Prefix Cascar intake. Carb bolted to intake with no spacers. Absolutely no room for air cleaner. Maybe 1/2 between carb and hood.
     
  3. 68cuda408

    68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I have a b-body hemi scoop on mine so I might be asking to much. Although the throttle body is angled down at the front , I would only need to clear the top of the intake. The Holley Hi-ram is 11.6" tall at the front and 10.5" at the rear. Currently I have a super victor efi intake,1" spacer and a FAST throttle body, under a 2 1/2" cleaner with a hi dome. I leaves 1/2" clearance. Without knowing the mounting surface to hood line measurement I won't know my options.
    Thanks for the response

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  4. 408 swinger

    408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    From the intake flange to the carb mount surface on the Cascar is right at 6 inches. Then however tall a 4150 carb is plus half inch. That would be on a 73 Scamp. I'm sure that would get you close to what you're looking at for measurements. Reading through your heights on the Holley, it's going to be tight.
     
  5. 68cuda408

    68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I can work with that, thanks
     
  6. turbofreek

    turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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    i have a ritters and a low profile elbow on mine. under a stock flat hood of my.67 dart
     
  7. 68cuda408

    68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Thank you. Its looking more and more like its going to be the Holley Sniper intake (fabbed sheetmetal) for hood clearance and an air filter. Though Dragpak/Ritter/Cascar intakes are great ,I just can't find enough street/strip driven "swap", non vvt,srv,mds info. It seems everything is complaints about installing or comparing intakes on late model cars and not being satisfied, or utilizing and judging intakes with the factory late model equipment and functions. Can you tell me your elbow height or brand?
     
  8. Kiddart1

    Kiddart1 Well-Known Member

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    68cuda408,

    I run the Cascar hi rise with a Fast efi system. the car runs great and i have it all under my stock 6 pack hood scoop. car runs really good for almost stock.
     
  9. 68cuda408

    68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I just ordered the prefix/arrow cascar intake (minutes ago).The torque "sweet " spot is right where I need it for a street driven car. I know the fast 4150 throttle body will fit with out an air cleaner. after some research It looks like I'll be using a Sullivan performance elbow and an aftermarket 4.6 cobra single blade oval throttle body. Apparently the modular crowd has already figured this stuff out. I really don't want to change the hood and scoop. Thanks all for the replies

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    • turbofreek

      turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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      i have the holley low profile elbow on mine. allows a 90mm tb ford or ls bolt pattern cable style. i had a 90mm from previous build. so inused it. i also have holley efi so needed the cable operated setup anyways. the elbow wuld clear facing forward if i trimmed the top portion that allowed the ls tb to bolt to it. its about an inch tall on that flange and my stock flat hood nearly closed but that flange was thd hange up to completely gst it closed.

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      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        A 426 is a 7.0. What am I missin?
         
      • loganscuda

        loganscuda DON’T reMember

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        It’s a 6.1 stroked to 426 I assume
         
      • loganscuda

        loganscuda DON’T reMember

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        That color and hood are badass
         
      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        Hell, then call it a 7.0. lol
         
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        • 68cuda408

          68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Yes it is a 6.1 stroked . So here is the intake so far. The block and heads are still at the machine shop due to parts delays. I'm waiting on the throttle body (cable operated single blade). As for the color...thanks, it took a while of parking lot cruising to find a production late model color that would work on a muscle cars body lines. It's 2012 Ram Tequila Sunrise, rarely seen on trucks and more common on jeeps. The flat panels on jeeps do the color no justice and it looks non-metallic on them. Turbofreak , that engine looks serious. Whose valve covers are those?

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          • 68cuda408

            68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            An update . In case anyone runs into the same issue or has the same concerns. This set up is about 1-1/2" shorter than the super victor,spacer,4150 FAST tb, and air filter. I will be able to install a stock style glass hood . I'm also changing from FAST XFI sportsman to Terminator X. The new pump is in and -8 supply and -6 return (old supply) lines are in.

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            Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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            • 68cuda408

              68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              another update.....engine and systems are in and all fit under the hood with nothing to see in the scoop. Going on the chassis dyno this coming weekend for tuning. This has been WAYYY more work than it should've been. Holley has been a disaster to deal with and had I known then what I've learned , I would have converted my FAST XFI sportsman to run the hemi. Initially it would have cost more, but, the tuner in CA I went back to, sold me on the TerminatorX, stating that FAST is behind on the gen3's. I've now spent double what the update would cost to purchase another "X" kit for the harness (the first even bank coil driver harness shorted out the coils and ECU, split the coils wide open and affected the ECU so that when saving cals it would lock up my laptop. Another 2 hours on hold with Holley (over 10 total to date) finally getting confirmation that the ecu was dead and none were to be had, I bought another kit from summit (2 in stock) , stripped and replaced the ignition harness and drivers, ran it and found the temp thermistors in the second ecu were inop. Called and waited again, this time they sent an ecu and told me there was no warranty on the first set due to it being over 90 days (first call was 30 days after purchase where I was told to buy new coil drivers, which I did) and it was my choice to by the second kit instead of waiting the month for the expected replacement ecu's to come in. So here it is now, I fabbed the oval elbow ,it goes into 4" tubing with the filter at the bottom. @408 swinger , @Kiddart1 , @turbofreak thanks again for the info

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              • 408 swinger

                408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Looks great! Sucks you had so much issue with Holley. I haven't had to deal with them on that level. Sure sounds like I don't want to either!
                 
              • 68cuda408

                68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                You know, it's funny, you would think "they're the guys" when it comes to fueling. when I first started having issues the efi tuner I purchased from praised the system and pretty much told me I screwed up, and after $260 in coil drivers and another $300 in coils I was told I should've known there was a wiring issue even though Holley has NO diagnostics. Then told me the ECU is no good, call Holley. This is where I learned my first lesson with suppliers. I paid him, and he purchased direct from Holley in my name, so he's not responsible and I have to deal with them. When I purchased the second kit out of pocket the ecu "bricked" during the upload (for those that don't know, If your computer goes to sleep during the upload the ecu dies) so I get the speech about laptop settings before programming and that sleep happens even if the computer is working . He did help revive the ecu and reprogram it. Then while setting the iac noticed none of the temp readings were showing, he's on vacation , so Holley is called and after being told that nobody gets 2 bad ecu's they have me plug the first one in and see if the temps are there (they were) and send me another ecu. So I'm talking to local tuners and all I hear is all the problems Holley is having and expecting the tuners to fix for them. Some don't even tell them the fixes anymore. I thought I was alone till I checked BBB and was surprised.
                 
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                • 408 swinger

                  408 swinger FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Well, thanks for the heads up. Hopefully you've saved many from heartache.
                   
                • turbofreek

                  turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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                  • 68cuda408

                    68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Thats some good reading there, though it wasn't my issue. My even bank coils shorted and split open. After suffering through the tunnel vision of having the people that need to be choked out to far away, and after changing the coil harness from the ecu , and teaching the Holley rep how on a stock gen3, coils can split with a bad injector. (coil timing is widened so far to compensate for the fuel loads picked up by the o2 sensors). He's telling me the even bank must be over-fueling, Then I had to explain to him that there is no o2 sensor on that bank per the terminator x instructions. It turned out that the even bank coil driver plugs in the main harness were pinned reversed (gray and black plugs)so the driver input wires were installed in the output connector and the output wires were pinned into the input connector ecu damage was already done (the supplied fuse did not pop)
                     
                  • turbofreek

                    turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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                    holy hell, how did you figure out the wires was backwards? and is that a holley defect that should be warranted i suspect.
                     
                  • turbofreek

                    turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

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                    i replaced everything as well. main harness, sensors repeatedly, coils, plugs and wires...still got the exact same issues after all said and done. chased this shit for a year now. finally know what it is has been a giant stress releif for sure.
                     
                  • 68cuda408

                    68cuda408 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    it would suck for sure if I had to take this pan off again just for another poorly manufactured part. I did experience some of this on initial install. Reading the manual it clearly states to use the late model crank sensor but never says to use the old one for non vvt engines. 2 mopar sensors with no signal, then I threw a sensor for the 6.1 in and it was good, also noted that the sensors called for in the set up drop downs don't fit the harness. These systems are designed for vvt drop in's even though they have 36-2-2 files, 1 waste spark and 1 dual cop every thing else is 5.7 and 6.4 vvt,dbw,mds. On the dyno we will make sure to look at the ignition waves. As far as the wiring went, after all was said and done and holley told me I was on my own with the first kit (which was direct from them, but they say this problem exceeded the 90 day warranty and thats why I should've registered it as soon as I received it, not installed it, even though it was a 3 weeks old when I first called the authorized dealer with the issue) I sat down with the diagram and it hit me the pins are in the right order, wrong plug. As the installer you wouldn't see it with the sleeving on, you just blindly connect the connectors to the coil drivers. The damage wasn't pretty, toasted (cracked)4 DUI coils,4 autozone coils of which one flamed when the internals melted, then the fuse blew. I'm back to a new set of DUI's and everything is cool (relatively)

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