Is 9.7:1 compression on iron heads too much for 91 octane

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Thanks for all the replies. I think the domed pistons may cause me too much grief and limit my options so I’m going to stick with the kB199 flat tops for my 318. The flat tops will also allow me to run a closed chamber head should I so desire.
Flat tops, zero-deck, aluminum heads, and very high-pressure is a winning combo.
But properly fitted domed pistons in an open chamber, set up right to avoid detonation, can be every bit as potent, you just gotta pay attention to a few things..... while with aluminums you can just about throw anything together.
 
I hope these are not KB199's as those are for a Ford 427 LOL. Probably intends KB167...

Actually the 399 domes pistons will run in a closed chamber head. But the OP will be well off with the flat tops. SCR of around 8.8 with the stock 318 head (675's) and DCR in the low 7's. Change to 62 or 63 closed chambers (or mill .030" off the present heads) and the DCR will be in the upper 7's. Pretty easy to run there with pump premium.
 
If I had a 318; rather, if I wanted My 318 to make a lil more power, after headers and a 4bbl, a 2800TC, an A500 and 4.10 gears;
I would do nothing but install a custom fast rate, low rpm, solid lifter cam, with enough valve spring to stretch the stock heads to 5200/5500.
But if I had OPs combo, I'd still get a custom solid-lifter cam, but just a lil later Ica,lol, to "bleed" off a lil pressure at low-rpm. Not too much, cuz you know that pressure is going back up into the intake , where it does zero good. And, I would put a modest amount of overlap on it. And I would ask the grinder if he can whack my tiny 318 valves open as fast as possible, hold them open there for as long as possible, and then slam them shut. And if he says I need to get a rev-limiter for 5200, well then, I'll get a rev-limiter. And if the valve gear needs a refresh every 30,000 miles, that's no big deal. And if the square-lobbed cam needs to be replaced every second or third summer, that's no big deal.
Cuz that combo is gonna put an ear to ear grin on my face that will be just about impossible to erase.
And you know what else?; a few months ago I purchased an old Offehauser DualPort from a FABO member here, with no particular plans for it. So.... I'd stick it on OPs combo with a BIG TQ I also found, lol.

The only thing I would try to do is get those domes up into the chambers for a really tight Q. Whatever it takes, I'm shootin' for mid .02s... POW!

But, with 360s now plentiful,.........
 
making an open chamber head work
1 race gas or alky or propane--alky/ water injection
2 keep the revs above max torque
3 weld up the chambers
4 mill the open chamber flat
5 use quench dome pistons
6 use wedge head
& use dish piston to get combustion chamber under the plug
& get ignition curve right
 
All well and good for a race only car. You retune every day at the track and shut down after every race.

180° all the time is great if you're drag racing, it's easy to maintain that if you're only doing a 1/4 mile at a time. If you're driving on the street that's not very realistic, you will have temperature variation no matter how great your cooling system is. And if you're driving on the street when it's over 100°F outside, well, yeah it's going to be even harder to maintain. Why did I pull timing on my car? Well, because I frequently drive in temperatures exceeding 100°F, and when I do that my coolant temperatures get closer to 200°F. Which is still great for a street car. But not great if you're running right on the edge of detonation. And there's the fuel, the blend changes twice a year here. I don't retune. Street car. So basically my tune has to work from below freezing to over 100°F, because I don't re-jet every month as the temperature changes and they mess with the fuel blend. Or even between when I start the car at 0' dark thirty and it's 50° out or when I take it out later that afternoon at 100°F+.

If temperature matters so much like you claim, so does the material of the head. Aluminum and cast iron dissipate heat differently, that's physics and materials science. Is it worth a full point of compression like some folks claim? Probably not. But it does make a difference.

And it's not 1980. And 91 octane isn't what it used to be. And given the cam the OP is running, that's not a drag race only car.





:rofl:

So after all whining and complaining that you still ran your numbers?! Hilarious.

And I love all the "computer produced" "Voodoo" "computer programs are full of ****" nonsense. Those calculators and computer programs just run the math on the geometry of the engine. It's all the same math as doing it long hand, it's not voodoo. They're just calculating volumes based on dimensions. Same for dynamic compression, it's just calculating the volume in the cylinder based on the position of the piston when the intake valve is closing. If you know how to do the math the calculator just makes it easier. If you don't understand the math, then you can get yourself in trouble pretty quick feeding in bad information. There's nothing magic about the calculators, the fact that you don't understand how they're coming up with those numbers is more telling about your knowledge than anything else.

Dynamic compression calculating can be a little interesting, because ultimately you're calculating the cylinder volume when the intake valve is closing and depending on the ramp speed on the cam you may be building compression when the valve is "closed" but before it's fully seated. So the KB calculator uses ABDC @ .050" +15°. Others use intake duration -180 +15, others use .006" of tappet lift. You get the idea, it's an estimate because you're trying to calculate the moment the intake valve actually closes enough to build pressure and where the piston is at that point, and that's very specific to the individual cam.

So the KB calculator says my dynamic compression is 8.195:1. The Wallace calculator I don't like, you can feed it any number that makes you feel good, but it doesn't say what wants. Like if I feed in the ABDC number instead of ABDC +15, it tells me my dynamic compression is 8.9:1 and my cranking pressure is 188 psi. If I feed it ABDC +15 then I get the same 8.2:1, but it tells me my cranking pressure is only 168 psi.

Realistically I know that I haven't put in enough data for it to be very good at calculating a cranking pressure, it has to be assuming the starter motor speed and a bunch of other stuff that basically makes the cranking pressure a wild *** guess. But if I use a few different estimates, I get a ballpark to work with. So I know that when it tells me my dynamic compression is 8.2:1, but I actually get a cranking pressure of 180 psi and I have to back off a couple degrees of timing, that the faster ramps on my cam may be closing that valve a little faster than ABDC +15. But I also know that it runs on 91 just fine unless it's 100°F +, so I know I'm probably not much higher than 8.4:1. Like any tool, you have to know how to use the calculators.



I think on the street you're going to be kinda borderline on 91. If your tune is always really great then maybe it'll work. But as I've said, if this is a street car and you don't want to retune it every time you take it out because the weather changed you may need more wiggle room than that.

I was going to type a response to this but it isn’t worth it.

Keep building low CR for pump gas street use. It’s silly, and a waste of money, but if YOU can’t do it, no one can.

Rediculous to tell someone 9.7 is too high for pump gas. It’s not IF you plan for it.
 
I had a 9.8: 1 318 with ported 302 heads and a 270s cam. Was a sweet motor ran a best of 14.6 with stock converter and highway gears in a dakota.
 
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