Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
Is there a possibility of having the wrong pitman arm on a 1972 Duster. All master splines line up on all components but with both tie rods adjusted the same length the steering wheel is upside down.
Is there different pitman arms for 1972
- Thread starter Wvbuzzmaster
- Start date
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Scody21
Just send it
Something is not right. You counted the revs of the wheel and made sure to center at about 2.5 turns from the end?
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
Yup, 2.5 turns both directions with the steering wheel 180 out, but the coupler is assembled with v notch up with the steering wheel master spline.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
^^^THIS RIGHT HERE^^
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
You are unhelpful with this post because if you read careful you will find i never stated the wheels were straight when the v notch and steering wheel were both up. They are both down at 2.5 turns either way.
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
Your column is in the pot coupler 180* off.
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
That was my initial thought but it is not. That coupler is also 180 out when steering wheel is 180 out (they are aligned to each other)
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I have a great idea how you can fix the damn thing. Drive the damn thing off a boat ramp at high speed with you belted inside. How's THAT WAS THAT HELPFUL??
Not only does the V notch go up but the steering shaft has a hole in it that also has to be up. It is about 3-4" from the end. I'll bet it's not.
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
Yup, that hole in the steering shaft you mention is also up when v notch us up.
So something I have figured out with research late into the night is that the pitman arm seems to have 4 wide master teeth spaced 90 degrees apart. Does this mean the pitman arm can go on the gearbox in a multitude of orientations that could be wrong to position the steering wheel correct?
I’ve never had them go on anyway but one. Do you have the old one to compare it to?
Scody21
Just send it
Maybe the wheel is on wrong. Yes there is 4 master splines, but only one correct way to have the pitman on.
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
Given that I can tell that the pitman arm has been changed, if there is only one right position, and ability to install in other positions that are wrong, I suspect this to be what has occurred since this car has had many wrongly assembled parts.
For the same reason I didn’t do it earlier when I said to myself that it was the quickest and easiest fix… If I have to reassemble something that is already correct in a wrong way to make a wrong situation right, what was really wrong to make it wrong? And since this series of components is directly responsible for controlling the direction of travel… I really don’t think it’s a wise decision to continue a wrong when it’s clear there are no aftermarket components in this system that would make me unable to assemble it factory correct, even if it takes longer to determine what that is.
That would be too much work to make it wrong to correct a situation that is correct, when there is clearly a root cause elsewhere making the current condition wrong.
Now for my soap box rant, ignore if you are squeamish:
…. Not to sound like an asshole, but why can’t there be more root cause problem solving and less quick fix problem solving …. I know we aren’t building spaceships but we also aren’t starting with a horse and buggy to build a car anymore …. If we were talking about lifters and valve train geometry this would have been way more technical solutions to avoid grenading your engine and less “just put the lifter in upside down it will be fine” solutions. Why should there be less emphasis on proper rest of the car assembly than the part that makes the same car go fast? Speed isn’t the killer, it’s the loss of control followed by the sudden stop into the wall or into the woods. Ok, ending my rant, hope all understands that there’s a reason these 50 year old cars are screwed up after non mechanics solve these issues with “quick fixes”.
Post pictures.
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
By me: I disassembled the entire suspension replacing all bushings in upper and lower control arms, ball joints, tie rod sleeves, tie rod ends, tie, wheel bearings, hubs, 1973 spindles and disc brakes, new torsion bars.
By someone else: I can tell the steering column is not original to to the car (blue paint inside the column and car is originally green). The pitman arm and idler arm are not worn out or loose so definitely replaced at some point before I got the car. Assembly of these components has been checked and the column is attached to the coupling and the gearbox per the proper indexing indications (V notch at the coupler is in same orientation as the master spline at the steering wheel).
All things point to the pitman arm. Lock to lock has a hard stop to the left as if it is out of travel completely, but to the right I can feel a “softer stop” of the bump stop on the spindle deflecting the tab on the lower control arm. So if there is different pitman arms compatible with 1972 that have different geometry or multiple positions the correct pitman arm could be installed by mistake to be wrong, those are the only possibilities left. Pitman arm does not appear to be bent and with the 1972 center link design no pitman arm 1973 up or B or E body would be able to be confused. Only options would be 62-66 A body, 67-72 A body, 67-72 Big Block A body, and Coronet. Not sure there is any difference between most of those pitman arms though.
On the way is a new MOOG pitman arm K7074. Already bought the MOOG idler arm so going to see what can be done with centering the steering box. Betting the pitman arm is installed 90, 180, or 270 out and they corrected by adjusting the tie rods since the ones I removed were an adjusted an inch or so different left to right (left being all the way in and right all the way out).
cudamark
Well-Known Member
Part of your last sentence is the key here. No way to get the pitman arm installed wrong and still be able to attach it to the center link. You just need to adjust the tie rods to where the steering wheel is centered. The fact that they probably were never even in length on your car is not unusual. These cars have all sorts of uneven welds and assembly variations. It doesn't take much adjustment on the tie rods to get the wheel centered again. It's not a jury rig or half *** repair, it's just the way the car was built.
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
Final verdict. It’s still not correct how I think it should be, however, I at least know it is all correctly assembled. It is definitely improved because as you see the old pitman arm was modified for the previous hedman headers which are gone now in favor of TTI shortys. Only other thing I see is play in the pitman shaft so on to front end alignment, because I no longer care as much as I did because if I am going to get to drivd it again before winter I need to move on to the next step. Also with as much as I have replaced there is way better steering and safety of such system.
Dfr360cuda
Diagnosis... Plum Crazy.
Power and manual steering.... Different spline sizes
cudamark
Well-Known Member
Not in '72.
72 was a transition year. PS went from small to large shaft.
thank you for the pictures. I would rant how this is an extremely important tool to communicate when a member is seeking solutions to their problems, but I think I just did.
cudamark
Well-Known Member
Yup, '72 and earlier were all small sector shafts, '73 and later the power steering gears were all large.
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