Is This Common For a Custom-Built Torque Converter???

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MobileCustoms

MobileCustoms

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So, I followed advice and a reference from a reliable shop to have a converter built for my 416 stroker/727 combo off of my dyno specs rather than taking any stabs in the dark. Great, It arrived in one week flat. I was happy! Until I opened the box and saw two very large counter weights weld on one side of it. Called them up, they assured it is common to have some with no weights at all and some that require quite a bit.
I reluctantly say Ok and then try to bolt it up to my flex plate... no dice. It should have a 10 inch bolt pattern but it measures out at 10 1/8 inch and there's no way it will line up in any combination. I have 3 different flex plates to compare and all are the same at exactly 10 inch spacing. I also have 2 other converters that bolt right up to any of those 3 flex plates.
Call them back and they basically tell me that's not possible but gladly agree to refund my money. They asked if I wanted them to build me another one and I politely declined.
I'll be calling PTC later today to order a new one from them instead.

Here's a photo showing the counter weights. None of my other converters have any weights on them and I just didn't like the idea that it could be that far off in a neutrally balanced setup. i also figured there would be a drain plug... nope
I'm glad to hear others opinions on the weights. Either way the damn thing wasn't gonna bolt up though.

Bad converter from BTE.jpg
 
as far as the weights go, it is what it is, if the manufacturer said its meant to be like that who is to argue? flex plates all B&M or ?? I had a B&M that wouldn't bolt up once, I very carefully filed each the mounting holes until it went
 
That looks like enough weight for a externally balanced 360 to me. I don't know what to tell you but I myself would not use it.
 
Hellrats said:
That looks like enough weight for a externally balanced 360 to me. I don't know what to tell you but I myself would not use it.
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That was exactly what I thought, also.


lilfontleroy said:
as far as the weights go, it is what it is, if the manufacturer said its meant to be like that who is to argue? flex plates all B&M or ?? I had a B&M that wouldn't bolt up once, I very carefully filed each the mounting holes until it went
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2 TCI sfi-rated flex plates and one PRW sfi-rated. And like I said before, they all bolt right up t 2 other known good converters. The guy told me some converters get none and some need a lot of weight. I find that kind of odd and inconsistent. My guess is that if the guy was building one for his own car it would be built so that it didn't require a 1/4 lb of weights one one side of it to make it balance.... just sayin'
I'll try my luck elsewhere. I have way too much time and money into this project now to start shrugging things off as good enough or close but no cigar.
 
It is strange for a custom built converter not to have the correct bolt pattern.
Custom converters are built to the information given the builder by the customer. Given the wrong information, the converter will be wrong. I once had a customer screaming at me that his converter wasn't fitting properly. I got the spec. sheet he had filled in and looked it over. I went over what he'd put down on the sheet with him. When I got to the question, do you have a mid-plate and what thickness is it, it was blank. He forgot to note on his spec. sheet, he had a 3/16" midplate. Errors can happen from either party.
It's good to see that you are getting a refund.
 
I just got a new 727 converter for neutral balance and no weights and no drain plug.
 
MobileCustoms said:
So, I followed advice and a reference from a reliable shop to have a converter built for my 416 stroker/727 combo off of my dyno specs rather than taking any stabs in the dark. Great, It arrived in one week flat. I was happy! Until I opened the box and saw two very large counter weights weld on one side of it. Called them up, they assured it is common to have some with no weights at all and some that require quite a bit.
I reluctantly say Ok and then try to bolt it up to my flex plate... no dice. It should have a 10 inch bolt pattern but it measures out at 10 1/8 inch and there's no way it will line up in any combination. I have 3 different flex plates to compare and all are the same at exactly 10 inch spacing. I also have 2 other converters that bolt right up to any of those 3 flex plates.
Call them back and they basically tell me that's not possible but gladly agree to refund my money. They asked if I wanted them to build me another one and I politely declined.
I'll be calling PTC later today to order a new one from them instead.

Here's a photo showing the counter weights. None of my other converters have any weights on them and I just didn't like the idea that it could be that far off in a neutrally balanced setup. i also figured there would be a drain plug... nope
I'm glad to hear others opinions on the weights. Either way the damn thing wasn't gonna bolt up though.

View attachment 1715242796
Click to expand...
My Mopar performance flex plate is non symmetrical. All the bolt holes will only line up in one position. You have to turn the converter around till you find the correct position. At least that's how mine is with a turbo action 8 inch converter and Mopar flex plate.
 
The fact that it has been balanced, presumably neutral balanced is a good thing. Any quality converter that I have had has had some balance weights, albeit most neutral ones have only had small weights to make them neutral. I too have found that the aftermarket flexplates from B&M have the holes about 1/8 to 1/4" too close together, compared to a stock flexplate, and they must be slightly opened up or elongated to work. I wouldn't rule out that the problem is with your flex plate.

That being said, that does look like a lot of weight to obtain a neutral balance and makes one wonder about the quality of workmanship that went into the building of that converter.
 
Andre (Edge) is a good point of reference for Mopar converters. He is extremely knowledgeable & will tell you what you need depending upon the specs of your car & driveline. I've bought a few converters from him & had no problems with them, he knows his stuff!
 
The converter consists of much more than what you see outside. The weight includes everything within the converter, too. That is a small amount of weight to get one neutral balanced, everything considered. Look how thin those little weights are. There are normally two weights on a 360 converter about 1.25" long and roughly 1/4" or more thick. That is a lot of weight. Enough weight for an externally balanced engine, not what you see here. Just because it has weights (and a small amount, IMO) doesn't make it a bad thing. I certainly wouldn't condemn it for that alone. The next one you get may have weights as well. That simply means the converter WAS balanced.
 
You got a “custom built converter” in one week flat? Hmm that alone would raise a red flag for me.....
 
clinteg said:
You got a “custom built converter” in one week flat? Hmm that alone would raise a red flag for me.....
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The first converter I got from edge. I ordered on Monday, and had it in my hands on Wed, overnight air. I know it was custom built, as it was 3200 stall, for a 170 slant six. it also had the small crank pilot (67 down) and the large trans splines (68 up).
 
Charrlie_S said:
The first converter I got from edge. I ordered on Monday, and had it in my hands on Wed, overnight air. I know it was custom built, as it was 3200 stall, for a 170 slant six. it also had the small crank pilot (67 down) and the large trans splines (68 up).
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Hmm those guys must really be keeping ahead of schedule
 
clinteg said:
Hmm those guys must really be keeping ahead of schedule
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I told Andre, it was an emergency. I had broken my 8 inch TCI converter that week, and had a slant six race coming up the following weekend. He was the only one that could either fix mine or build a new one in time for me. That was many years ago, but he has always given great service. I currently have 3 Edge converters. 1 is small spline small pilot, 2 are large spline small pilot.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The converter consists of much more than what you see outside. The weight includes everything within the converter, too. That is a small amount of weight to get one neutral balanced, everything considered. Look how thin those little weights are. There are normally two weights on a 360 converter about 1.25" long and roughly 1/4" or more thick. That is a lot of weight. Enough weight for an externally balanced engine, not what you see here. Just because it has weights (and a small amount, IMO) doesn't make it a bad thing. I certainly wouldn't condemn it for that alone. The next one you get may have weights as well. That simply means the converter WAS balanced.
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Imagine if you put your driveline all together as new and the car or engine had some kind of objectionable vibration.
The first thing you would be looking for is to see if everything has been balanced lol. I,m not saying that a driveshaft or converter cannot be balanced without any weights on it, but if there were none and you have a problem you would be questioning whether the builder forgot to do it. At least if you see some weights on there you know it was done. I think this guy bought another converter for no reason, imho. The bolt holes will probably line up if clocked at the right position as well. IMHO.
 
Duane said:
I think this guy bought another converter for no reason, imho. The bolt holes will probably line up if clocked at the right position as well. IMHO.
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Believe me, the bolts were never gone go in.... I tried every possible position and even tried flipping flex plates over, just for ***** and giggles. The bolt pattern was an 1/8 inch too big. I don't understand how that can happen but it did. Read my first post: I had 3 flex plates and 3 converters and they all bolt up in every combination, except for if I tried to bolt anything up to the new converter. Either way, it can never hurt to have a second opinion, or in this case, a second converter.
I'm glad to hear that it's normal to have weights and a neutral balanced converter, I just thought weights were used on the ones with external balancing, that's why I asked the more experienced folks here. But the bolt holes were just plain wrong. I had all the parts out and on my workbench in plain site so it's not like I was laying under the car and could get a good look.
Thanks again for the input.
 
Good that they balanced it but if you think about the components in a converter, it shouldn't take much if anything to balance. I gasped at the bolt lugs that were welded onto that case. I didn't read back but you have your new converter yet? It will be interesting to see the new one compared to the one you pictured above.
 
MobileCustoms said:
Believe me, the bolts were never gone go in.... I tried every possible position and even tried flipping flex plates over, just for ***** and giggles. The bolt pattern was an 1/8 inch too big. I don't understand how that can happen but it did. Read my first post: I had 3 flex plates and 3 converters and they all bolt up in every combination, except for if I tried to bolt anything up to the new converter. Either way, it can never hurt to have a second opinion, or in this case, a second converter.
I'm glad to hear that it's normal to have weights and a neutral balanced converter, I just thought weights were used on the ones with external balancing, that's why I asked the more experienced folks here. But the bolt holes were just plain wrong. I had all the parts out and on my workbench in plain site so it's not like I was laying under the car and could get a good look.
Thanks again for the input.
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Just to educate the rest of us, what are the brands of flex plate that you feel do not fit that converter. Couple of guys saying that the b&m
Have trouble. Could it be the flex plate is wrong and not the converter, or perhaps the company who made the converter could recommend a known to work flex plate. Surely they made it to fit something. I am wondering if the bolt spacing/alignment is not standardized within the Mopar converter industry.
I just wanted to make sure you were aware the the mounting bolts are not symmetrical by Mopar. The aftermarket could be different.
I have only delt with turbo action and I use a Mopar Sfi flex plate.
The bolts will only go in with the plate and converter clocked at one correct position so there is not a consistent bolt circle.
 
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