issues replacing timing chain set

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B-NA$TY

B-NA$TY

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the other day on my way to work in my 74 duster i destroyed my timing gear in my 225 /6. i got her all torn down and cleaning everything up
i have my crank set-- tdc#1
cam set --marks lined up
new chain and gear set pre lubed
resolvedmy questions/issue; my crank timing gear wont go all the way on the crankit has about an 1/8" to go.... i didn't think it would be a good idea to hammer on it so i thought i would ask first...

resolvedalso can anyone post the torque specs for cam gear or link the removal/ installation

with the marks lined up on the timing gears. when i set the distributor back in do i set it at #6?

see pix below for current issue

thank you so much in advance everyone
 
B-NA$TY said:
the other day on my way to work in my 74 duster i destroyed my timing gear in my 225 /6. i got her all torn down and cleaning everything up
i have my crank set-- tdc#1
cam set --marks lined up
new chain and gear set pre lubed
my questions/issue; my crank timing gear wont go all the way on the crankit has about an 1/8" to go.... i didn't think it would be a good idea to hammer on it so i thought i would ask first...

also can anyone post the torque specs for cam gear or link the removal/ installation

with the marks lined up on the timing gears. when i set the distributor back in do i set it at #6?

thank you so much in advance everyone
Click to expand...
don`t know about the /6 timing, but every chevy I`ve ever built had to have the lower gear driven on. made a driver out of a piece of 1 1/2" alum pipe. worked for me ----------bob
 
Where is the Woodruff key slot? I don't recall ever doing a slant, but on my small block, it must be on TDC compression on #6, not #1. Confused me until I read the manual. Anyway, if you line up the Woodruff keys and the two dots are nearest each other (on a line between shaft centers, that is correct (don't second-guess). At least you don't have the racing type with multiple slots (up to 9 on some timing sets), where you must find the right dots to align. Also, when done, turn the engine over by hand slowly to assure you didn't mess up and have valves hitting pistons (possible in a slant?).
 
Alignment / misalignment will effect the life of the chain. I have to think the woodruff key fitment is your issue. Take it out, look for it to be distorted sideways then replace it.
 
BillGrissom said:
Where is the Woodruff key slot? I don't recall ever doing a slant, but on my small block, it must be on TDC compression on #6, not #1. Confused me until I read the manual. Anyway, if you line up the Woodruff keys and the two dots are nearest each other (on a line between shaft centers, that is correct (don't second-guess). At least you don't have the racing type with multiple slots (up to 9 on some timing sets), where you must find the right dots to align. Also, when done, turn the engine over by hand slowly to assure you didn't mess up and have valves hitting pistons (possible in a slant?).
Click to expand...




Everywhere i read was #1 TDC? and I have the marks lined up perfectly... Once I get the gear on all the way I was going to rotate and check to make sure It stayed true...... Slant six is non-interface (as far as I know)...gear blew-up while on the freeway..... and valves were just adjusted a month ago
 
RedFish said:
Alignment / misalignment will effect the life of the chain. I have to think the woodruff key fitment is your issue. Take it out, look for it to be distorted sideways then replace it.
Click to expand...

I will remove assembly right now and inspect Woodruff key....... Should the gear slide on 100% by hand?
 
B-NA$TY said:
I will remove assembly right now and inspect Woodruff key....... Should the gear slide on 100% by hand?
Click to expand...

With a little emery cloth rub to crank journal and gear bore. As the key distorts sideways it also pushes a burr to one side of the key slot. I have took that away with a small file before emery cloth polish. Saves time.
It's not supposed to be a sloppy fit or a press fit. Perfect fit is what your seeking.
 
B-NA$TY said:
Gear off woodruff perfectly even and not distorted
Click to expand...
Sure it is. You might need inspection table and measuring instrument to see it but its there. Dress the sides, top, and corners of it with emery cloth and reuse it since its not severely distorted.
 
It's on!! I cleaned it with Emory cloth and a small file like you said it took a little negotiating but its on now thank-you guys!!


How about torque specs?

And the crank threads are 3\4x16 right?
 
In future, get yourself 2" and 2.5" bolts with 3/4" - 16 threads (same as Mopar small block threading). Use these in the threaded hole inside the crank snout with a flat washer pushing on a short piece of pipe with square ends to push the crank sprocket into place. It is supposed to be a very tight fit.

Torque on the cam sprocket bolt is supposed to be 35 ft lbs but it is common to increase this to 45-50 lbs as these tend to work loose if not tight. Clean up the bolt AND the hole inside the cam thoroughly with brake clean or solvent or paper towel to get the threads squeaky clean and dry, and use Blue Locktite on the threads.

When the dots are lined up, the pistons are such that #1 and #6 are slightly after top dead center (ATDC). #6 is in the firing postion with the dots aligned.
 
Sweet thank-you done and done got the cove back on with new gasket and seal... Going to hardware store for a bolt and washer to install harmonic balancer


What's the thin gasket between balancer and timing gear??

Great tip for install tool!
 
I could only find grade 8 at the NAPA store for 3/4"x16 tpi; hope your search is easier. But they are part of the tool box now.

If you are talking about the thin steel ring between balancer and crank sprocket, that is the oil slinger that keeps excess oil from running out on the crank snout and making life harder for the seal. It needs to be installed with the bent lip facing to the front; if not, then I'd remove the cover and flip it to the proper orientation.

Also, did you get the timing cover aligned on the 2 small dowels down at the bottom at each side? If you did not remove the oil pan, then it is sometimes hard to get the bottom cover-to-pan gasket to compress so that the cover slips onto these dowels. (I use small vice grips to the compress the cover to pan gasket a bit while moving it into place.) Also, the seal needs to line up very well centered in the hole or it will leak, sometimes the cover needs to be shifted to do this. Oil the seal, and smooth the seal surface on the damper shoulder where it rides on the seal with some fine sandpaper or emery cloth.

BTW, let us know how the engine runs after the new chain. They will stretch and it is easy to get the cam retarded 4 degree or more (just at the service limit), which is a lot of cam retard. I suspect yours was really stretched. It ought to make a dramatic improvement in off-idle response and general driveability.
 
This is what I got I guess it broke when I pulled it... I just noticed it while cleaning the seal surface before painting
 

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B-NA$TY said:
What's the thin gasket between balancer and timing gear??
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the oil slinger? It reduces oil expelled from the front seal, keeps the timing chain out of the front cover, and helps keep the timing chain on the smaller gear (very useful if the engine has a "walking" camshaft).
 
iv been searching everywhere on the web to see the oil slinger you guys are talking about... my motor did not have one???? from the looks of things i am the first person in the timing cover unless someone used oem parts and did a very clean job years and years ago with no sealant......... the old timing gear had the Chrysler logo and nylon coating on the teeth from what i can tell and the crank gear had "dcpd" is that direct connection parts distribution?
 
The gasket on the harmonic balancer has the exact indentation from the crank gear on itshowing there is nothing in between them before..... Any ideas??????

I got the needed bolts from ace hardware
 

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DCPD is an oooold stamping that stands for 'Dodge-Chrysler-Plymouth-DeSoto'. I appears on a lot of stuff and is a brand marking. The Penstar logo came later. The crank sprocket casting is probably the same one used for years but the nylon toothed cam sprocket came out later so probably got the later Penstar logo. So, you had the old nylon teeth strip.....

The thing you show in the photo of what you had left behind the crank sprocket might be what little is left of the slinger. Maybe the remains were in the pan and you did not see it.....did you find any curved pieces of thin metal?

Here is a slinger: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Dodge...lock-426-Hemi-Slant-Six-3-9L-V6-/400825048155
 
The piece left on the harmonic balancer is definitely a gasket like material not metalI decided togasket maker on it but it tak up good install the harmonic balancer and let it sit for a while.. Then I test ran it.... she fired right up still need to adjust the timing but I will do that when I can have it running after I fully assembling everything........ I will update...


I clean the pan out the best I could take out chunks in small pieces there was no large metal pieces like from a singer or anything like that
 
Hmmm OK, well the old seal had been leaking, based on the crud on the back of the dampener, so the slinger migth not have been there in a while.
 
car is back together fluids changed, new hoses,belts, and some new paint set up the timing and she sounds great!! for the exception of a small manifold exhaust leak ( i was planning on doing that job this weekend until the timing chain went) i guess their is next weekend
 
And there is a post over on www.slantsix.org this AM asking about oil slingers and the author saying he had torn down several hydraulic lifter /6's and did not find a slinger in any of them. But, a real '74 /6 has a mechanical lifter cam so that does not necessarily apply. So there appears to be some transition to when these may have gone away. Maybe you have a later /6?

It'll be interesting to hear if it drives better now.
 
nm9stheham said:
And there is a post over on www.slantsix.org this AM asking about oil slingers and the author saying he had torn down several hydraulic lifter /6's and did not find a slinger in any of them. But, a real '74 /6 has a mechanical lifter cam so that does not necessarily apply. So there appears to be some transition to when these may have gone away. Maybe you have a later /6?

It'll be interesting to hear if it drives better now.
Click to expand...

that is interesting.. im planing on running my motor numbers to see if it actually a 74ish block... it dose have mechanical adjustable valves

just running the car a little bit and moving it here and there. It starts nicer and idle seems smoother
 
B-NA$TY said:
It starts nicer and idle seems smoother
Click to expand...
Then it'll be a real treat when you get it on the road. Hope I am not building this up too much! LOL It is just that a new timing chain in these would make a lot of owners pretty happy.
 
Thank-you everyone for all your help and awesome information!!!!!!!!
 
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