I've seen A LOT of posts about making HP with a 318-So why is it so ???

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318 is in a weird position, you could obviously make as much power as any 340/360 to a point. And if 360 were a lot harder or more expensive to get there would be no reason not to start with a LA 318.
To me anyone with a decent running 318 adding mild cam, 4bbl and duals with manifolds or headers is a no brainer 250-280 hp, after that is where things become an issue, head flow becomes a problem especially if you want to stick with stock pistons.
Most people aren't gonna port so 340/360 1.88 or 2.02 are an option especially if adding pistons for cr but most seem to not add cr. Could go magnum heads but might as well start off with a magnum engine. then theres gearing, most only want to run 3.55 which is a compromised gear for a 360 nevermind a slightly higher revving 318 . Since most street guys need idle-5000 rpm powerband 360 gonna give a little more through out that powerband with allowing a little more head cfm and cam and like 3.23-3.55 gears better. 5.2l magnum wouldn't be a bad swap probably same gross hp as a 73 340 but problem is 5.9l aren't that hard to find.

To me I'd rather Magnum 5.9l or 5.2l mild cam, header 4bbl upgrade over stock piston, 1.88 valved 360/318. If being fully rebuilt with higher cr piston than any lA 360 or 5.9L will do especially if your porting or aftermarket heads.
A 318 at that point isn't the best option but can be made to work, but it's more from I want to build something different camp.

It's hard not to say start with a 360 the 42 cid is gonna add a noticeable difference in almost every case, but the 440 guys could say why start with any smallblock or even 383/400.
 
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2 reasons. One it's in the same boat as a Chebby 307.... It was categorized as a upscale from the Leaning tower of power. The 3 numbers just don't add to to the average hotrod enthusiast.

Secondly, if your gonna go through the trouble of building a motor and it not a 340 based motor, 360 is just the natural selection. Same work, same money, more return.

Seeing how I got a stock longblock V6 in a buick in the mid 11's there could be an easy argument that a bone stock 318 with no more than a force inducted camshaft could give you that number and more with probably atleast the same reliability. But the money will be spent getting boost and all things related to that in a somewhat efficient manner. So to the wallet it once again doesn't make sense. I have thrown more than my share of 318's into the recycler over the years and never gave it a second thought....

JW
 
Don't forget on the dyno the engine uses no alternator, fan, fuel pump, water pump or air cleaner and is tested using open headers.
could that produce an additional 40 HP?
No
 
318 is in a weird position, you could obviously make as much power as any 340/360 to a point. And if 360 were a lot harder or more expensive to get there would be no reason not to start with a LA 318.
To me anyone with a decent running 318 adding mild cam, 4bbl and duals with manifolds or headers is a no brainer 250-280 hp, after that is where things become an issue, head flow becomes a problem especially if you want to stick with stock pistons.
Most people aren't gonna port so 340/360 1.88 or 2.02 are an option especially if adding pistons for cr but most seem to not add cr. Could go magnum heads but might as well start off with a magnum engine. then theres gearing, most only want to run 3.55 which is a compromised gear for a 360 nevermind a slightly higher revving 318 . Since most street guys need idle-5000 rpm powerband 360 gonna give a little more through out that powerband with allowing a little more head cfm and cam and like 3.23-3.55 gears better. 5.2l magnum wouldn't be a bad swap probably same gross hp as a 73 340 but problem is 5.9l aren't that hard to find.

To me I'd rather Magnum 5.9l or 5.2l mild cam, header 4bbl upgrade over stock piston, 1.88 valved 360/318. If being fully rebuilt with higher cr piston than any lA 360 or 5.9L will do especially if your porting or aftermarket heads.
A 318 at that point isn't the best option but can be made to work, but it's more from I want to build something different camp.

It's hard not to say start with a 360 the 42 cid is gonna add a noticeable difference in almost every case, but the 440 guys could say why start with any smallblock or even 383/400.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is the perfect post because I totally 100% get it. Perfect points. Thankyou 273, J.Rob
 
Asking why build a 318 is like asking why mess with a slant six. Some folks like what they like.

Now I see why you are asking what you are. From a business owner's perspective is where I'm coming from and that isn't going to align with all. When a customer asks me these types of questions--I have a self induced MORAL duty to try and save them from them selves. So when someone asks to build a 305 Chev stroker--I lay it all out and Guess what? A month or so later I am building a 383 for them. Same thing with the Mopar crowd--Guy comes in and says " I got a 4 door 73 Valiant and I want to make big power from the 318 and I have $3500.00." I tell them to put the 318 in the corner--go find a 360 and come see me. Another month or two and they show up with a 360 core and ---everyone is all smiles.

I have never had a customer come and tell me "We never should have built a (340/360)--I'd prefer a 318. In fact I have heard quite the opposite. J.Rob
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is the perfect post because I totally 100% get it. Perfect points. Thankyou 273, J.Rob
When this guy is on, this guy is ON!

Ir someone wanted to do a 318, I say why not. I’d also suspect that this person has walked around the block a few times. Doing a 318 is a lot like doing a 6 pack. It is because you wanna do it in full well knowing that more power can be had by a bigger engine or a better and cheaper induction set up than a 6 pack.
 
With proper parts selection, I see no reason why a 318 couldn't reach 1 HP per square inch.
The secret is in the heads and the cam!
The lift of a stock 318 cam is .373. Yeah. The valve springs could almost be compressed by an 87 year old dude with arthritis.
The 318/5.2 Magnum was rated at 230 HP, a number that could easily be boosted with better heads and intake, headers and a decent cam.
You can make 300 hp using a cam with less than .480 lift and 220'[email protected] with headers and a 600 carb if the heads are ported to flow like a stock 360.. in which case buy the pistons and use the 360 heads with a good valve job w/1.94 valves.
Mostly people under or over cam, under compression always and don't do anything in the cylinder head department that's correct or verified...they grind away at nothing and 'make big'..'grunt grunt' and there is nothing to tell them if all 8 or 3 or 5 flow the same or worse or equal to the other. People wonder why even a mildly ported set of tested heads wake it up big time... its balance. Why you tell backyard bob to just go easy... because you can have one flowing 30 cfm more than the rest or none flowing any better.. it's a crap shoot.

318's are popular atm, interest just seems to have bloomed again. I think that's cool. I'm building one, restrained, and another radical.
 
Mostly people don't do anything in the cylinder head department that's correct or verified...they grind away at nothing and 'make big'..'grunt grunt' and there is nothing to tell them if all 8 or 3 or 5 flow the same or worse or equal to the other. Why you tell backyard bob to just go easy... because you can have one flowing 30 cfm more than the rest or none flowing any better.. it's a crap shoot.

Hey... Are you bashing me for my first timer port job I posted about at FBBO ?
:BangHead:
 
I'm currently doing a bolt on job to a true 1968 318. The goal was a thousand bucks and see what she do. Thanks to careful purchases and a bit of diligent research, I added a Voodoo Hyd (702)cam .485/.495 112 LSA degreed in at 108 as per Harold's instructions, Elgin HP lifters, new Patriot headers, a new Jegs 2.5" exhaust, used Eddie's with a gasket porting job and bit of bowl blending(currently at machine shop getting gone through and new beehives installed), air gap manifold, stainless rockers, and I've got a Eddie 1406 to start with, and a 3310 if it needs more. I'm guessing just over 1hp per cube...between 320 and 380 at the crank. I'll have real numbers within the next few months....either chassis dyno or time slips. Just dont laugh too hard at the time slips...its in a B body..lol
My main thought is this...even if it ***** the bed, I'll sell the heads and headers for what I am into the whole engine for...then my 440 gets done that much quicker : )
 
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If you use n LA roller that is already 9.2 to 1, do you need custom pistons?

Isn't 9.2 about what you want for a pump gas motor that doesn't ping?
 
If you use n LA roller that is already 9.2 to 1, do you need custom pistons?

Isn't 9.2 about what you want for a pump gas motor that doesn't ping?

You just made a great point. I am sure RAMM or PRH can answer this but can you even get a reasonably priced piston to fix the compression issue? I know you can for the 360 as I have a set on order. That is hurdle #1 right there....

JW
 
If you use n LA roller that is already 9.2 to 1, do you need custom pistons?

Isn't 9.2 about what you want for a pump gas motor that doesn't ping?



...and wouldn't these "stock" pistons (or the 67-68 ones) fix the low compression issue in the 69-82-ish motors?
 
Hey... Are you bashing me for my first timer port job I posted about at FBBO ?
:BangHead:
Not at all. I didn't know you did one yet, I've been too busy badgering 2 machine shops to get my **** done and my side work is popping off all the sudden so I don't have much time browse. I'll check it out, don't take it personal..but its next to impossible to blindly get them all within 5 cfm first round..its shear luck and with light blending when you do. I found that out myself, I'm a believer ever since. Talk about different colored plug readings.. lol. Link to your thread?
 
“If”, and that’s really a big big if...... I were to build a mildly hotted up 318, I’d have to do it a little differently than the stuff I’ve done before...... just to change it up a little.
Since the EQ heads are gone, I’d like to see just how F’d those SM Magnum heads actually are....... so that’s what I’d use.
KB flat tops, a mild cam that would work with a stock magnum valvetrain.
I’d probably use that SM universal intake, avs2 650 carb, etc.

I know Jesse has used a version of that head and wasn’t too happy with them, and even though the flow was way less than an EQ head, they were a fair amount better than 675 or 302 heads.
Edit- I see Promaxx shows a replacement magnum bare head for $272/ea..... so I’d probably give those a shot.
 
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You can make 300 hp using a cam with less than .480 lift and 220'[email protected] with headers and a 600 carb if the heads are ported to flow like a stock 360.. in which case buy the pistons and use the 360 heads with a good valve job w/1.94 valves.
Mostly people under or over cam, under compression always and don't do anything in the cylinder head department that's correct or verified...they grind away at nothing and 'make big'..'grunt grunt' and there is nothing to tell them if all 8 or 3 or 5 flow the same or worse or equal to the other. People wonder why even a mildly ported set of tested heads wake it up big time... its balance. Why you tell backyard bob to just go easy... because you can have one flowing 30 cfm more than the rest or none flowing any better.. it's a crap shoot.

318's are popular atm, interest just seems to have bloomed again. I think that's cool. I'm building one, restrained, and another radical.

There is a stock 318 long block low cr build that made 282hp @ 5000 rpm with 4bbl and headers and a xe262 cam, add some cr and bigger cam can't see why you can't get 300 hp out of stock heads, but if your buying pistons for cr might as well go to with better heads.
 
A stock lo compression 318 with an xe 262,4 barrel and headers at 282 hp?
That's more than a stock 1969 high compression 340!
 
A stock lo compression 318 with an xe 262,4 barrel and headers at 282 hp?
That's more than a stock 1969 high compression 340!

If you go by factory ratings, few believe a 340 makes 275 gross hp.

Plus 340 has more like 9.5:1 then 10.5:1 so it's around one cr point higher than a 318, good for about 5-7% power increase and a xe262 cam is a lot bigger than a stock 340 cam, main difference would be heads and which nether is being a restriction at that power level. So 340 better cr and heads/ 318 better cam and headers. And if you want to go by stock gross hp figures a 318 was rated 230 so a cam, 4bbl and headers can't add 45 hp?
 
And if you want to go by stock gross hp figures a 318 was rated 230 so a cam, 4bbl and headers can't add 45 hp?

Seems totally reasonable to me.
As I stated in post #32....... I did a similar build in 1990 and made over 290hp.

Way back when, one of the magazines had an article where Bob Lambeck built a 340 to factory specs, and dynoed it.
I seem to recall it making about 315hp.

And more recently there’s this:
How Bad Did Mopar’s 340 beat Ford & Chevy? Shocking New Data!
 
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I don't know..figures are all over the place.Yes stock early 340's were 9.5:1 give or take.But i know of 2 rebuilt to stock spec 340's that dynode 276 and 281at 5200 rpm.I also know of a stock spec. rebuilt 426 hemi that dynode 465 At 6200 rpm. But a stock headed 318 at 8:1 with a cam and intake surpassing a stock 340?
I'd take the magazine numbers with a grain of salt.
 
Believe what you like, but 290hp from a warmed over 8:1 318 happened for me 30 years ago.
(Well, actually not quite 30 years ago just yet. The date on the dyno sheets is September 1990)

It’s a “been there, done that....... have the stack of dyno sheets to prove it” thing in my book.

F47D4908-0955-4379-AA4A-EE952E8E3EDB.png


I think if it had an honest 9:1cr and a real cam it would have easily been about 1hp/ci.
It was .040 over, so it was 324.5ci.
 
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Excellent post. "this is what i did and this is what happened!"
Cannot dispute your post, Thanks!
...and the stock rebuilt 426 hemi dynode 425 hp at 5000 rpm just like the factory rated it.
 
I agree with 273 ut with stock heads a bigger cam than 262 (even 256 lunati or howards0) starts to take away from the low and low midrange
not a good tradeoff for a daily driver
you end up with super stocker type driveability- but boy do you have more braging rights horsepower
273 it's not about the small hp gain with the higher compression
it' about pulling the torque curve up for the whole curve
you feel the low end effect more
right AJ?
 
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