J heads on a 76 318 in a 72 Barracuda?

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shadango

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Well, a neighbor into E bodies came up and was checking out my project car ...72 Barracuda.

I was told it had a 74 318 in it.....Well, my neighbor ID'd the heads as "J" heads (He pointed out the "J" on them) and said he thought I might actually have a 360......so , now that he got my curiosity going I crawled under and checked out the casting numbers.

On the drivers side, --- 4006730-318-15
On the right side ---- D N<---- 4 - 28 - 76

So its a 76 block, 318.....with J heads.

I have already installed an ECU for a 72-74 318 and a new 72 wiring harness.

SO, the questions are endless now.....but to start

---- Will the 72-74 ECU I have now work OK?

---- Will the J heads mean anything in my application?

---- Tranny wise, can I still use a 727 or 904 from a 72-74 Barracuda?

I looked up the ECU for the 76 engine (in a duster) and its a different part number.....

Please tell me this is gonna be ok....

:angry7:
 
take a valve cover off to check the casting number on the heads...

only way you know for sure what you have...
 
if there are J heads with 73 cc chambers the will kill the compression ratio of yor 318
 
The driver side head has a "J" cast into it on the outside.....does that indicate what my neighbor says ?

I am second guessing him on this because while there is what looks to be a "J" on the drivers side head, there is a similar mark on the other side, but it is backwards....
 
This thread is half a mess...............




SO, the questions are endless now.....but to start
Let'em rip!

---- Will the 72-74 ECU I have now work OK?
2 or 4 prong, that's all that matters right now for the ease of things.

---- Will the J heads mean anything in my application?
It will mean lower compresion and it's a step backwards.

---- Tranny wise, can I still use a 727 or 904 from a 72-74 Barracuda?
What did it come with?
IF you had the 904 to start, you'll need to shorten the driveshaft for the 727
IF you had the 727 to start, you'll need to lengthen the driveshaft for the 904

I looked up the ECU for the 76 engine (in a duster) and its a different part number.....
No issue there.

Please tell me this is gonna be ok... Except for lower than low compresion that could run on yak urine, it'll be fine.

70aarcuda take a valve cover off to check the casting number on the heads...

only way you know for sure what you have...
Not so bad in this case. The "J" on the head is exactly what it is, a J head. It should have 1.88 and 1.60 valves, but it could have 2.02 intake valves.

The driver side head has a "J" cast into it on the outside.....does that indicate what my neighbor says ?
YES YES YES YES
I am second guessing him on this because while there is what looks to be a "J" on the drivers side head, there is a similar mark on the other side, but it is backwards...
That is the way they came.
 
Thanks rumblefish....

I dont have the tranny or the driveshaft yet.....the seller is supposed to get a 727 tranny and driveshaft from a 73 for me.....

Why would someone build a 318 with J heads if it means LESS performance? Simply convenience (ie they had the heads available at the time and used what they had) ? The only thing I know for sure about the engine is that it has a deep sump oil pan on it...it also has an edelbrock performer manifold and 4 barrel carb on it....seller said it has a double row timing chain on it... He is supposed to get me some contact info for the guy who did the motor...if he does, then I can get to the bottom of what went on I guess.

By the way -- the "yak urine" comment cracked me up.....LOL :toothy10:
 
Do you plan on keeping the heads/block combo? If yes...

The low compression is easily solved with a piston change. The KB 399 is a domed piston. The dome effectively reduces your heads chamber size by 6.5 cc. So you 70cc chambers are now 63.5cc. Roughly 10:1 compression is achievable.
 
Thinking it might be easier to just swap the heads.....wouldnt it?

I am wondering why someone would have put those heads on it to begin with....or is that a stock head in 76?
 
shadango; Thinking it might be easier to just swap the heads.....wouldnt it?

I am wondering why someone would have put those heads on it to begin with....or is that a stock head in 76?

Why would someone build a 318 with J heads if it means LESS performance? Simply convenience (ie they had the heads available at the time and used what they had) ? The only thing I know for sure about the engine is that it has a deep sump oil pan on it...it also has an edelbrock performer manifold and 4 barrel carb on it....seller said it has a double row timing chain on it... He is supposed to get me some contact info for the guy who did the motor...if he does, then I can get to the bottom of what went on I guess.

318 4bbl.s came stock with 360 heads. Cost cutting measure that passed the tail pipe test.


The 360 head swap is an old MoPar suggestion to do that was in there "Tips" section in the old performance books/catolog. It works well when used right . Since this has been the old stand by to do over many other options, it becomes a staple and thought to be the best move to do since Mopar suggested it. It became a cheap upgrade.

The head has large port windows and big chambers. In order to effectively use it, the engine everywhere else must be up to snuff and often it is not. The problem arises when someone reads the info, thinks that the race tips can be used on the street and then slowly goes down in performance level from what it was intended for until most folk think it is the basic "Hop Up" item to perform.

Now the 360 head (wrongly) is used as the first or second thing to do in upgradeing a 318. With the availale size port, alotof air can be moved and the small bore and stroke of the engine can not use this amount of port well. While there can be a seat of the pants improvment, the best way of doing things is left behind and forgotten about. Useing what you have.

Sometime ago, MoPar (Slowly) got wind of what was going on and ported a 318 head, set it up on a an engine and started to dyno it. They swapped heads around and continued to play around with it.

What they found is a 318 head seriously out performed the 360 head to the tune of 55 HP on a mild engine. While there is a time and a place for a 360 head, it's not on a mild engine. The biggest problem, besides trying to tell people that the 318 head can out perform a 360 head is, tring to convince them that spending the money on the head is the right way to go.

All they see are dollor signs and prefer the cheaper (Less performing0 way of the 360 head in stock form over a ported 318 head. Cost is a factor for all of us non-rich guys and the cost of porting a head can be scarrrrrrey.

It's a catch 22 and mostpeople can't see it even when your trying to give them an explanation and the science behind it. They just see dollor signs and a quick way of increaseing performance.

The catch is the dollors spent on porting a head, ruffly a grand start to finish and in total of everything done vs. a simple bolt on they get cheap. Say, $200 form a Junk yard.

What there loosing (power wise as well) is about a point of compresion, if not more because of the bigger chamber, (and often wrong head gasket being to thick and not considered) slower response due to the larger runner and valve size. (1.8 or even worse, the 2.02 valve) which means slower air and fuel movement making the mix of air and fuel not so well atomized and that ends up in a poorer burn of the mix.

When all this occurs, alot of times a person will install a larger cam shaft. The performance cam shafts tend to have a tighter centerline about the 110 area. This and a larger overlap. (The time when both valves are open.) If you do not increase your compresion to help balance out these minus points on the low side of the RPM scale, you loose power. Velocity is slow through the intake and heads which requires more jet and a basicly richer condition in order to get it to idle and run right.

Balanced it out did we? Not allways so. It now runs rich in cruise and probably very apon accleration (Mild) The carb see a reduce signal and requires more jet. When the engine picks up speed, the velocity picks up and a more normal state, of where it should be operating in comes in and then runs richer.
(For this, a air/fuel meter that can be read while driving is needed. Something like from F.A.S.T. that can read the O2 all the time in the cabin.

The large chamber of the J head does nothing for flame front travel and complete burn. Thus the KB399 piston mention. This piston not only helps by raiseing the compresion, but also takes up room in the head to help put the squeeze and better burn back into the head.

While I'm not a fan of a domed piston on the street, it works well enuff.
I like a flat top piston and a closed chambered head. KB has a flat top piston that is said to be a zero deck height unit. This slug with a thin gasket, .040 or so, and the closed chamber head for a bit of quench, better flame travel and less of a chance on pinging with the right octane of course is a great help all around.

Careful with this combo, compresion ratio's can get high quick and out strip the pump ocatne quick if your not careful.

There is a time and place for a 360 head. A cheap upgrade is for the most part, the reason why it's used. But theres a better place for it and a cheap upgrade isn't it most times. The 360 can be effectively used, but is it the right or best hea for the job at hand?

Anyway, you asked.
 
Thinking it might be easier to just swap the heads.....wouldnt it?

I am wondering why someone would have put those heads on it to begin with....or is that a stock head in 76?
I WOULD CHK OUT MOTOR SPECS 1ST, I HAD A 318 THAT CAME IN A DART, THEY COULDNT GET IT TO RUN RIGHT SO THEY SOLD CAR, IT HAD J-HEADS-4BBL-HEADERS-ETC. TURNED OUT TO BE A REBUILT .040 9.3 COMP--509 CAM--DOUBLE ROLLER--WINDAGE TRAY....AFTER A CARB AND DISTRIBUTOR[WHICH WERE JUNK],INTAKE CHANGED[ALUM] RAN LIKE A SCALDED APE............YOU NEVER KNOW WHO'S BEEN IN THERE OR WHATS BEEN DONE TO THIS MOTOR, JUST 'CAUSE IT HAS J-HEADS DOESNT MEAN ITS LOWER COMP, I HAVE USED J-HEADS ON MANY 318'S WITH GOOD RESULTS[ MILLED OR BETTER PISTONS,USUALLY MILL HEADS, WITH THE 1.88/1.60 VALVE SET UP] JUST DO A LITTLE HOMEWORK ON THE MOTOR AND DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT IT TO DO AND GO FROM THERE, AS FAR AS YOUR OTHER ???'S THEY PRETTY MUCH HAVE BEEN ANSWERED............WITH THE RIGHT COMBO A 318 CAN BE A SCREAMER, AS FAR AS THE J-HEADS THEY ARE SOUGHT AFTER WHETHER THEY ARE 1.88 VALVE OR 2.02 VALVE VERSIONS [SAME CASTING #'S]...BUT JUST ASK ???'S WHEN YOU ARE IN DOUBT, THEYRE LOTS OF GUYS HERE THAT WILL HELP YOU OUT.....
 
Thanks guys....GREAT info!

I am still hoping to talk to the previous owner of the engine at some point so I can know whats in there.....

I was told the motor ran fine when it came in to be swapped out for a 440.....hoping it was done right and not half-assed.
 
That was very well SAID.Now I wish I had that knowledge when I got my 340 J heads.I was told by the owner they will work great on my stock 318.ya right I know better now.now they sit in my basement doing nothing.My plan next winter is a 360.So for now that little 318 will power my Dart.
 
Great reply Rumble!!

Shandango,your right. There are simpler ways of raising your 318's compression. If you perform a compression check on the teen and think it's o.k ( for a teen with 360 heads,130-140 is fine ) you could simply swap heads. If you have higher comp than that the motor may already have had the pistons swapped or the heads milled or the block decked. Normally a stock 318 piston is .060 to .080 down the hole...

If you can port,go with 302 casting heads. BJR, member here is a pro at them,but they need extensive porting to really perform. They do however have a small combustion chamber. Im sure there are a few online magazine articles you could read.

If you dont port or dont want too,go with magnums. A few more dollars because you need extra parts,but the ports are sufficient in stock form for 400 h.p on a teen. They like a single pattern cam. Porting them and matching a cam to that will easily ad 50 h.p.

Thin head gaskets are a cheap compression boost and good for .5 increase.

Milling heads is another option,but can be tricky to get everything to seal up properly. Especially if you mill heavily (.060 ). You have to have the intake face of the heads milled as well.
 
Agreed, 302's are the way to go on the 318 engine. Alot of people dog the 302's because of the large pushrod pinch on these little heads, but in the case of the 318 bigger isn't always better. We've done alot of testing with the 318 engines and tried both the 340/360 heads and the 318 heads 302's and others. And the winners by far were the 302's with the 2843675 heads next. We ran as fast with 302's on a 2 bbl as we did with the 360 heads and a 4 bbl., then when we added a 4 bbl to the 302 heads and the engine was 2 tenths quicker in the 1/8 mile.
 
Agreed, 302's are the way to go on the 318 engine. Alot of people dog the 302's because of the large pushrod pinch on these little heads, but in the case of the 318 bigger isn't always better. We've done alot of testing with the 318 engines and tried both the 340/360 heads and the 318 heads 302's and others. And the winners by far were the 302's with the 2843675 heads next. We ran as fast with 302's on a 2 bbl as we did with the 360 heads and a 4 bbl., then when we added a 4 bbl to the 302 heads and the engine was 2 tenths quicker in the 1/8 mile.

I actually think the 675 head is better, if your porting it wildly, because you can keep your small port, and get a better shot at the valve, from the smaller pushrod hole.......
But then, you have an kinda open chamber.

I love my 302's.
 
Thanks everybody. Sorry for the long read. Sometimes you gotta spend some time on a reply. Just saying it'll work or just because doesn't allways cut it. It's the internet and I'm a blind face.

Explain it well and then you transfer the knowledge on over to all whom read it.

I can't remember the exact details of the MP engine build but when they found 55 more HP over the 360 head....well... case just about closed!

Where the trade off point is also depends on what your intended purpose of the cars is and also what your willing to sacrifice. I hope to find out one day where this may lie/ er ..... lay ... for many applications and not just 1 or 2.

In talking with many head porters and drag racers, they all have a different method of doing things and idea where this occurs. The biggest problem in speaking with these people is understanding where there coming from, there idea's and methods and transfering your idea's and thought adquitley (sp!) to them.
You yourself have to honest with...well, yourself and what your doing with your car and how it performs. A heavy street car will need a different route than a much lighter race car. You can't allways split the difference between the two. But you can have fun trying.

Some guys will install crazy cams and sky high stall converters and others won't go there but run a different route of long stroke/high torque engines.

Racing is like a relgion, many ways to worship all in the pursuite of doing or getting the same result.

(Oh man, spelling everywhere, sorry guys, I need to ethier sleep or get more coffee.)
 
mmmore ccccoffffeeeee forrrrrrrr meeeeeeeee pleeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
 
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