Jalopnik; California Wants to Ban Chrome Plating

[autoxcuda]

I work for a large defense contractor, it's been at least a decade since the government has allowed use of any hex chrome fasteners on their vehicles. They came out with a new mil spec for fastener coatings probably about 14 years ago, we still come across certain sizes of fasteners that have never been made under that new spec. But the $30 a bolt we pay for those is better than grabbing some hex chrome ones that have been sitting on the shelf for years apparently. Same with electrical connectors, they've been clean for a decade+ coming from vendors, but we regularly need to get a waiver in order to use government provided components that are still made with hex chrome. I guess it's OK for them to not follow the rules they created for others.

Yes. Military and aerospace require chrome. Industries still big in California. Still big tax contributor.

 

[Steve welder]

Hate to hear that they all have died from the plating business. I wonder if the plating companies have ppe for their employees and do they have the ventilation system's in use?

You hate to hear it? But you complain about new regulations

 

[Dan the man]

You hate to hear it? But you complain about new regulations

Learn how to read, I asked if they were providing ppe for their employees and using a ventilation system

 

[Steve welder]

Learn how to read, I asked if they were providing ppe for their employees and using a ventilation system

Common sense would dictate a chrome plater bought a 50 dollar respirator for a worker and id think those shops would have a vent fan in the wall
and do you think thats enough protection? `
Because I certainly dont

 

[jimmer]

Steve it might be time to get off your high horse.
Find something else to do or read and relax.
You do much better when your not wearing your cape trying to save the world.
Life will go on but all of us are terminal , it's just a matter of how and when.
God bless
Deep breaths but not in a plating shop without ppe !

 

[Dan the man]

Common sense would dictate a chrome plater bought a 50 dollar respirator for a worker and id think those shops would have a vent fan in the wall
and do you think thats enough protection?

No sir I don't. But I have no idea how to make it safer for those folks, wish that I did.

 

[mopardude318]

Better get my parts in now!!

 

[Dan the man]

Common sense would dictate a chrome plater bought a 50 dollar respirator for a worker and id think those shops would have a vent fan in the wall
and do you think thats enough protection?

The press that I ran for year's had ventilation tubes that were on the floor to help with the vapors, but they wasn't maintained properly which made them useless. I was around mek, thinner, acetone, toluene and a glue that was applied to insulation paper for transformers, so I do have some knowledge and experience around hazardous chemicals. I had to take hazwhopper training yearly. The correct respirators to wear around hazardous chemicals is a heck of a lot more than $50, if I remember correctly it was more like a few hundred dollars each. A fan in the wall is about as useless as it gets. I understand and agree that better regulations are needed but it seems to me that California would rather ban it than fix it.

 

[Steve welder]

The press that I ran for year's had ventilation tubes that were on the floor to help with the vapors, but they wasn't maintained properly which made them useless. I was around mek, thinner, acetone, toluene and a glue that was applied to insulation paper for transformers, so I do have some knowledge and experience around hazardous chemicals. I had to take hazwhopper training yearly. The correct respirators to wear around hazardous chemicals is a heck of a lot more than $50, if I remember correctly it was more like a few hundred dollars each. A fan in the wall is about as useless as it gets. I understand and agree that better regulations are needed but it seems to me that California would rather ban it than fix it.

And you know Ca would rather ban chrome plating than fix it, how? How do you know that ?
The news? Only when the news fit an agenda, then of course its truth, when it does not, then of course its fake.
See that attitude almost daily.
Im not defending CA and banning all chrome plating seems unreasonable but nobody with a once of responsibility should ***** and moan about tightened regulations on chrome plating when its well known how dangerous it is to workers and the environment

 

[Dan the man]

And you know Ca would rather ban chrome plating than fix it, how? How do you know that ?
The news? Only when the news fit an agenda, then of course its truth, when it does not, then of course its fake.
See that attitude almost daily.
Im not defending CA and banning all chrome plating seems unreasonable but nobody with a once of responsibility should ***** and moan about tightened regulations on chrome plating when its well known how dangerous it is to workers and the environment

I've never been in a chrome plating shop, but I have been in a radiator shop and it was nasty smelling. Didn't the op say something about California banning chrome plating businesses? I very well could have miss read or miss understood.

 

[George Jets]

I have seen chrome plating processes where they copper plate the part first, then nickel plate, then put on the final clear chromium finish to bring out the shine.

This was a higher quality finish than plating without the copper.

 

[subcom]

I have seen chrome plating processes where they copper plate the part first, then nickel plate, then put on the final clear chromium finish to bring out the shine.

This was a higher quality finish than plating without the copper.

I caught this episode recently and I believe they said this shop was in California.

 

[mopowers]

I caught this episode recently and I believe they said this shop was in California.

Damn, so much for ppe.

Maybe because they needed to talk on camera?

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

Exactly why so many manufacturers are packing up and moving out of commiefornia.

All you have to do is look at Las Vegas, Reno, Nevada and dozens of other cities outside of California to see the exodus.

Edelbrock still has their foundry in California but they do all the machine work in Tennessee, not good business sense. I believe that edelbrock and AFR are the only ones who still make cylinder heads and intake manifolds in the states, I don't know if there are others

There are a lot of cylinder heads made in the US. Brodix in Arkansaw. Dart Heads are cast in Ohio, Indy Cylinder Heads are cast at a foundry in Indianapolis, Pro Filer in Ohio. If fact there are more non-ferrous foundries in the Midwest than any other part of the country.



Tom

 

[pauly]

I would like to ban California! There’s some good people there, but c’mon already!

 

[Steve welder]

The press that I ran for year's had ventilation tubes that were on the floor to help with the vapors, but they wasn't maintained properly which made them useless. I was around mek, thinner, acetone, toluene and a glue that was applied to insulation paper for transformers, so I do have some knowledge and experience around hazardous chemicals. I had to take hazwhopper training yearly. The correct respirators to wear around hazardous chemicals is a heck of a lot more than $50, if I remember correctly it was more like a few hundred dollars each. A fan in the wall is about as useless as it gets. I understand and agree that better regulations are needed but it seems to me that California would rather ban it than fix it.

Almost every job has risks. Some much more than others. Its a risk many of us take in order to feed, clothed and house our families
However as society becomes more aware, when knowledge increases about hazards for workers, we as the greatest country on earth should be willing and able to show the rest of the world that life and health for workers is a priority we embrace
I wonder how many worker regulations in China to they have in relation to our country?

Steve it might be time to get off your high horse.
Find something else to do or read and relax.
You do much better when your not wearing your cape trying to save the world.
Life will go on but all of us are terminal , it's just a matter of how and when.
God bless
Deep breaths but not in a plating shop without ppe

There is always bound to be a uniformed reply like yours that makes no sense
But let me ask you a question. Since as you say, life will go on and all of us are terminal, are you terminally ill?
Are you suffering with cancer or respiratory disease as a result of your employment or do you just want your bumpers chromed cheap?

 

[Phreakish]

Damn, so much for ppe.

Maybe because they needed to talk on camera?

Listen to what they're saying over those tanks. It's the nickel and copper steps. They're using E-nickel (eletroplated) which is why there are sparks. E-nickel is less porous and so makes a better substrate for the chrome.
Those chemicals are far safer to work around unless you go swimming in it. The baths can be acidic or alkaline, but the steam is only steam. The 'bad stuff' are aqueous salts and can be easily and safely rinsed. Eye pro is the most important. Notice all the steam goes straight up? There's huge vent hoods over those tanks, otherwise that whole shop would be dripping with moisture. The shop I worked in would condense and collect that water as part of the waste stream, or recycled back into the baths.
The chrome tanks often have robot dunkers to keep people away from the chemicals - there's some B roll footage in there showing exactly that. The worker safety aspect isn't the biggest concern though, it's people splashing stuff around or causing spills. Automating the process prevents accidents. Spilling the copper or nickel baths isn't near as big of a concern.
Bans on chrome are based on the thinking that if there's dangerous chemicals around, then there will be spills and that no spill is acceptable. It's partly right, but the steps required to get a permit to operate shops like that include a ton of spill prevention and lots of measures for containment so that if there is a spill, it doesn't spread. The idea that risk for an accident must be zero is why it's taken 40 years to even get close to going back to the moon.
The greatest risks in a plating shop are typically found in the chemical storage area. Puncture a barrel with a forklift and it's a bad day. Or have a careless employee move stuff around and place dangerous chems together or in uncontained space, and accidents can happen. Even the best worker safety programs don't help when half the population is of below-average intelligence. Stupid to blame the boss when workers don't follow procedure and mock safety as over-bearing but then sue if you try to fire them.

 

[mopowers]

Bans on chrome are based on the thinking that if there's dangerous chemicals around, then there will be spills and that no spill is acceptable. It's partly right, but the steps required to get a permit to operate shops like that include a ton of spill prevention and lots of measures for containment so that if there is a spill, it doesn't spread. The idea that risk for an accident must be zero is why it's taken 40 years to even get close to going back to the moon.
The greatest risks in a plating shop are typically found in the chemical storage area. Puncture a barrel with a forklift and it's a bad day. Or have a careless employee move stuff around and place dangerous chems together or in uncontained space, and accidents can happen. Even the best worker safety programs don't help when half the population is of below-average intelligence. Stupid to blame the boss when workers don't follow procedure and mock safety as over-bearing but then sue if you try to fire them.

That may all be true, but it's certainly not why CARB is considering banning the use of hex chrome. There were mandatory control measures adopted way back in the 80's to control hex chrome emissions from those facilities for a reason. Even with those controls, I certainly wouldn't be standing beside open tanks of that stuff day after day.

 

[Dan the man]

That may all be true, but it's certainly not why CARB is considering banning the use of hex chrome. There were mandatory control measures adopted way back in the 80's to control hex chrome emissions from those facilities for a reason. Even with those controls, I certainly wouldn't be standing beside open tanks of that stuff day after day.

Is there a way that the tanks can be enclosed and have the vapors go through a incinerator?

 

[mopowers]

Is there a way that the tanks can be enclosed and have the vapors go through a incinerator?

Vapor capture is essentially what the ATCM requires (granted this is CA only). Facilities have been required for years to maintain certified fume suppressants that meet specific hex chrome emission limits. Apparently, that's not good enough? If this new rule goes into effect, these businesses will either switch over to tri chrome, move out of state, or close up shop all together. Again, it's nothing new unfortunately - the writing's been on the wall for years.

 

[Dan the man]

Vapor capture essentially what the ATCM requires (granted this is CA only). Facilities have been required for years to maintain certified fume suppressants that meet specific hex chrome emission limits. Apparently, that's not good enough? If this new rule goes into effect, these businesses will either switch over to tri chrome, move out of state, or close up shop all together. Again, it's nothing new unfortunately - the writing's been on the wall for years.

I'm sure that the government uses chrome and I can't see them letting them shut down completely. I read that the epa won't let edelbrock build another foundry in the states even if they shut down the one in California, that's why it's still there.

 

[Phreakish]

That may all be true, but it's certainly not why CARB is considering banning the use of hex chrome. There were mandatory control measures adopted way back in the 80's to control hex chrome emissions from those facilities for a reason. Even with those controls, I certainly wouldn't be standing beside open tanks of that stuff day after day.

True, but I'm basing my statement on risk assessment from a personal level in a well run facility with proper hazardous material handling equipment. Not standing next to an uncontained and uncontrolled tank - which I definitely wouldn't want anyone to ever do. I'm pretty sure it's also nearly unheard of. Even the backwoods places I've seen re-chroming hydraulics in the mountains for logging and mining equipment have some serious collection and disposal systems.

Point being, there's no way to mitigate all risks to zero, only minimizing them where feasible. Outright bans are an 'easy button' approach to a supposed problem and I find that approach silly. At least in this case, there are likely to be ways to deal with it and so the losses as a result of a ban are not likely to be as bad as many assume they will be.

 

[Phreakish]

I'm sure that the government uses chrome and I can't see them letting them shut down completely. I read that the epa won't let edelbrock build another foundry in the states even if they shut down the one in California, that's why it's still there.

The government has been at the forefront of developing chrome alternatives for decades. There are fewer and fewer places it's used or even allowed within government or military parts and systems. They're still out there, but dwindling by the day. Most new designs and procurement efforts specifically forbid chrome of any kind in the designs.

 

[Dan the man]

True, but I'm basing my statement on risk assessment from a personal level in a well run facility with proper hazardous material handling equipment. Not standing next to an uncontained and uncontrolled tank - which I definitely wouldn't want anyone to ever do. I'm pretty sure it's also nearly unheard of. Even the backwoods places I've seen re-chroming hydraulics in the mountains for logging and mining equipment have some serious collection and disposal systems.

Point being, there's no way to mitigate all risks to zero, only minimizing them where feasible. Outright bans are an 'easy button' approach to a supposed problem and I find that approach silly. At least in this case, there are likely to be ways to deal with it and so the losses as a result of a ban are not likely to be as bad as many assume they will be.

No offense intended for the one's that live in California, but that's where most of the stupid stuff starts from, like banning gas powered mowers

 

[Phreakish]

Is there a way that the tanks can be enclosed and have the vapors go through a incinerator?

It's also a place with a huge economy that let's them study things like lawnmower emissions and sound pollution. That combined with a large population with areas of high density means some dumb stuff makes sense for them that doesn't make sense elsewhere. Some of the dumb gets suffered by areas of the state where it doesn't make sense, but that's life in CA..