Jeep HEI for Hemi 6, possibly slant 6 (and GM Holden 6)

[Dave999]

Lately i have been messing about with a Jeep Aftermarket HEI distributor.

I like the idea of easy configuration. everything you need can be accessed once the rotor has been taken off

purchased a Jeep coil cap HEI via amazon from a US supplier, yeah its white box chinese import.
why?

• Same hold down as hemi 6/Slant6
• base size although unknown was definitely the same or smaller than hemi 6/slant 6
• tall enough so that when mounted the side of the head would not hit the side cover, at least on a hemi 6
• Jeep guys seem to think they a great, not sure what that says about Jeep guys, their standard set up or these distributors...

Cut off the oil pump drive
Removed the melonised drive gear... these destroy standard jeep cam shafts
Drilled a new hole for a slant/hemi 6 gear once i had worked out where, based on the shimming of my old distributor
Fitted the shims and gear.
The gear was 4 mm further from the hold down so i knew i needed two 28mm 2mm thick shim washers. for a slant 6 you would need 6-8 mm i think
the base was 1 mm too thin so i got 27mm ID 29MM OD bass tube and turned it to size, just set calipers at size of standard dizzy and keep taking a slice off till they fit, and pressed it on
swapped module for known good
swapped coil in cap big red stupidity for standard motor products Old stock
swapped rotor to match cap Borg warner brand
purchased new old stock lead and condenser off ebay

No real set up of curve done yet, all standard chinese springs and weights
runs and drives nearly as well as the old distributor 40 miles on it and not been stranded yet... some further work necessary

was it worth it? not sure, it kept me occupied We will see in the coming weeks.
yes i need a set of shorter ignition leads....

 

[Valman]

If your car had a brake booster do you reckon it would interfere?
I know this is a problem with some brands of distributors on Hemi 6’s.
Nice work mate.

 

[peedee]

I did many years ago (25) a hei conversion on a slant 6 in a AP6 with putting a hemi 6 factory electronic distributor in wired to a Bosch bim024 module the only mod I had to really make as a spacer to align the drive gear and put in plug leads that mounted to the cap at a 90* angle on the block side, if they were straight leads they would be bent at an angle that I could invision the silicon core breaking

 

[Valman]

I did many years ago (25) a hei conversion on a slant 6 in a AP6 with putting a hemi 6 factory electronic distributor in wired to a Bosch bim024 module

The Bosch module conversion works well. Run a Bosch HEC or MEC coil with it and you basically have a HEI ignition.

 

[Bewy]

The stock GM HEI module passes about 5.5 amps; the Bosch passes a little more, 6.0 amps. I have tested both.

 

[Ted265]

Cool project, looks like it would go real close to the booster if you ran boosted brakes though.
I've found a re-curved factory dizzy with the BIM024 module and coil to be a pretty good cheap setup.

 

[Dave999]

I did many years ago (25) a hei conversion on a slant 6 in a AP6 with putting a hemi 6 factory electronic distributor in wired to a Bosch bim024 module the only mod I had to really make as a spacer to align the drive gear and put in plug leads that mounted to the cap at a 90* angle on the block side, if they were straight leads they would be bent at an angle that I could invision the silicon core breaking

I know

I was in the middle of making a copy of the Hemi performance set up at the time, they were flogging a "rebuilt" distributor with a US 4 pin HEI stuck on the side. part numbers covered with a nice shiny sticker/decal for $480, making massive claims about it and massive margin on it, and I was thinking bloody expensive decal....! I can do that for $20 and my time. aluminium angle, big jubilee clip, hei mounted, never looked back..

You posted what you did with the Local bosch module on moparmarket
(i was Dave - the - pom on that there messageboard... that's what they called me at work in sydney so that's what i used)

I thought Ha Ha.... i'm definitely on the right lines here.
At the time an orange Box in Oz was costing $200 or more + $40-$50 for a wiring loom. + a six week wait for pentastar or HP or someone to actually import what they were "selling"

No way was i going mopar... so soon as the car and I arrived back here in the UK the points went....

fella called Keegs (keegan rowe) turned what you had done into a nice wiring diagram i think or took your diagram and.... erm improved it ...still got it somewhere in my folder of "useful stuff"

moparmarket and hemi6packs message boards both gone, such a shame lots of good ideas lost.... all that stuff about propane/turbo set ups on slants 6s etc

i was the idiot who blabbed about how to use a US 16:1 steering worm reversed in an Aussie box to make a cheap 16:1 steering set up, should have kept my powder dry... still see Aussie suppliers harping on about how they did All the research to bring this new idea to australian mopar owners. One mob, no longer trading, even used the part numbers i quoted...galled me slightly, $1000 for $500 worth of parts and you still had to build it yourself. My idea was that people would do it themselves, not be totally scalped by local suppliers, so i eventually posted the full run down on the UKmopar board.... i could have been a millionaire by now

Jeep HEI well its there for the fun of it.... the labour would cost more than buying the distributor, no money to be made with this one... or at least it would be kinda hard

Dave

 

[Dave999]

Cool project, looks like it would go real close to the booster if you ran boosted brakes though.
I've found a re-curved factory dizzy with the BIM024 module and coil to be a pretty good cheap setup.

There is another name i recognise from the old Aussie boards...

yeah booster may get in the way... don't have one so never thought of that

i was running similar to you just with US module, bosch dizzy with 6.5 degrees in it. i.e 13 for the full advance measured at the crank

hemi 6, so 15 initial 28 total works good with modern fuel, vacuum direct to manifold on the base of 1 weber

ran good
this doesn't quite yet
i'll get there

Dave

 

[Dave999]

booster question i'll get a photo and do some measuring sometime this weekend
low profile 76 chevy truck cap may help as i say i didn't want that big red coil in cap set up....

 

[Valman]

US 16:1 steering worm reversed in an Aussie box to make a cheap 16:1 steering set up, should have kept my powder dry... still see Aussie suppliers harping on about how they did All the research to bring this new idea to australian mopar owners

That old chestnut.. I did that conversion myself mate. It wasn’t difficult. The suppliers make it sound like they’re breaking new ground.
Anyway, back to ignition’s

 

[Dave999]

exactly... not hard to do it was the $$$ risk to try it, that put everyone off, yet people still buy worn out "short in the worm screw" R/T boxes for 2K you can lead a horse to water...... etc

 

[Valman]

exactly... not hard to do it was the $$$ risk to try it, that put everyone off, yet people still buy worn out "short in the worm screw" R/T boxes for 2K you can lead a horse to water...... etc

Yeah, won’t think for themselves but want someone to blame when it doesn’t all go smoothly.. They’re everywhere.

FWIW, I used the 16:1 kit from Firm Feel. Different car afterwards.

 

[Ted265]

There is another name i recognise from the old Aussie boards...

yeah booster may get in the way... don't have one so never thought of that

i was running similar to you just with US module, bosch dizzy with 6.5 degrees in it. i.e 13 for the full advance measured at the crank

hemi 6, so 15 initial 28 total works good with modern fuel, vacuum direct to manifold on the base of 1 weber

ran good
this doesn't quite yet
i'll get there

Dave

Yeah I figured you were Dave the pom from the old aussie forums. I didn't realise mopar market had shut down until I went back to look for your 16:1 steering gear thread haha
Is this information still available on the UK board?
I spent a while trying to get the curve for my 265 sorted, scorcher rebuilt & recurved the dizzy but it came in too fast and had to much total (30*) - ended up settling on 16 initial & 26 total at 4,000 rpm.
I disconnected the vac advance as the pulses from the individual runner setup would make the timing bounce around at cruise. Thought about drilling and tapping the manifold to make a balance tube to run vac advance off but never got there

 

[peedee]

Ah Dave good to see you are still experimenting,
I still have the diagram that keegs did for the intermittent wipers, as I’m currently retiring my hardtop front to rear with new wire instead of adding on from the old harness that I initially put a modern 12 fuse box as well as stalk mounted wipers with rear defogger plus extra electrical accessories, and the original 1970 harness kept letting the smoke out at inconvenient times

 

[Dave999]

Yeah I figured you were Dave the pom from the old aussie forums. I didn't realise mopar market had shut down until I went back to look for your 16:1 steering gear thread haha
Is this information still available on the UK board?
I spent a while trying to get the curve for my 265 sorted, scorcher rebuilt & recurved the dizzy but it came in too fast and had to much total (30*) - ended up settling on 16 initial & 26 total at 4,000 rpm.
I disconnected the vac advance as the pulses from the individual runner setup would make the timing bounce around at cruise. Thought about drilling and tapping the manifold to make a balance tube to run vac advance off but never got there

steering i got there eventually collected up parts for a few years took me a long time to pluck up the courage....
Manual steering box rebuild - Mopar Muscle Association UK

and for your webers.... if they are of the new spanish type they have a vacuum port with a cap on below the blades near the progression hole well cap. screw in one of these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301566311994?

and you can run the vacuum through one of these to stop the advance fluttering.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Various-Vacuum-Advance-Distributor-APV001/dp/B00DHH15VG?tag=fabo03-20

look up APV 001 you will find em for less... 1 carb pulls enough vacuum to take idle advance up to the high 20s early 30s once running. makes it snappy off the throttle.... but the advance pulls back quick to your chosen curve as the blades open....

same set up used on 2 litre and 1600 alfasud with a very similar pulse smoother plumbed into 1 carb. they just used ported vacuum instead.

i'm running spanish 152G standard e38 config slightly bigger air corrector, with the floats set 1.5 mm higher i.e if you set em with a 12 mm drill bit normally set em with a 10 mm (i can't remember the distance or the size of drill depends on float type) this is the six cylinder setting not the lower setting for a choppy vibratey 4 cylinder, that is standard. all those people thinking they needed more progression holes...for me it was float height setting all along...

works good no flat spots all nice

i use a piece of smoke white translucent or clear plastic dowel to check levels. pull the main jet stack out 1 side, of each carb, put the rod down the hole. the minute it hits fuel you see a shadow pass over the visible end, works on any carb with access down the well from the top. with a marker on the rod, that rests on the carb lid, paperclip or Eclip/circlip or some such, you can easily check which carbs fuel level is low or high and tweak em.

10 years off and on, buggering about, and nobody tells you this stuff, Webcon UK 2 miles from me and although helpful never truly spill the beans on how they work..they have a dyno operator to pay....

float height, the right curve, and a plastic rod. the keys to a happy weber life..

Dave

 

[Valman]

this is the six cylinder setting not the lower setting for a choppy vibratey 4 cylinder, that is standard. all those people thinking they needed more progression holes...for me it was float height setting all along..

That was a reason why some people used the Dellorto DHLA instead. I think they had four progression holes from memory??
Heard a few guys say they had the off idle lean spot with Webers on a Hemi-6, which was curious..
I had a similar problem with SU’s once, but it would lean bog out of a left or right corner. Raised the floats 3/32’’- 2.5mm, no more big fat bog!

 

[Bewy]

Dave,
One more thing to happy Weber life. 4 psi fuel pressure max.

Valman,
Weber progression holes varied depending on the model. The 48 IDF s had four holes. The 48 IDA only has two holes, which is why they are not good street carbs. There were many iterations of the DCO[E] series.

 

[Dave999]

Hit the nail on the head there
the standard aussie sixpack carbs has 1 big 1 small progresion hole like an IDA, but a load of street features due to the desire to do circuit racing in saloon cars

Unique and only ever available from chrysler australia for 2-3 years.... not found or used anywhere else.

making a modern one work takes a bit of messing about...

Dave

 

[Valman]

Hit the nail on the head there
the standard aussie sixpack carbs has 1 big 1 small progresion hole like an IDA, but a load of street features due to the desire to do circuit racing in saloon cars

Seems to be quite a few different types & revisions, as Bewy pointed out.
Not sure why Weber or Dellorto couldn’t have just used a transition slot for ‘street’ carb. I’m sure someone has tried modifying a Weber with a T/slot.

 

[Bewy]

The prog holes are not inline, but staggered so that all the transition area is fully covered with no flat spots. Trying to turn that area into a slot would likely end up a big mess.....
Weber put a removable plug in the progression port that can be removed, giving access to the holes. For those feeling brave, the existing holes can be plugged & new ones drilled...

 

[Dave999]

which can get you to a point of no return with a $500 x 3 carburetor....last last most last resort...
if you are gonna mess with that use the $180 Jinlin Fajs copies

 

[Dave999]

every DCOE was a custom job for specific manufacturer so yes many series of carbs no rhyme or reason to series numbering in respect to features progression holes etc just a number to indicate the orginal configuration as requested by a customer.

John Passini. 2 books published in about 1968/69 one on tuning and one on theory green book and orange book. combined volume published in the 70s/80s. conversational technical, odd presentation, presented like some fella off the BBC in 1952
great tips, gotta read the lot though, and he covers a huge range of carbs that all use the same principles of operation.
well worth getting very much of its time likens motors to a "beautiful young lady with a playful personality" etc would be considered a bit wrong by young folk today

street and circuit setup focused, he's not a drag racer. i'd be willing to bet he smokes a pipe sports jacket shirt n tie under his overalls and a brown shop coat over the top....


Dave

 

[Valman]

likens motors to a "beautiful young lady with a playful personality" etc would be considered a bit wrong by young folk today

Very Italian! Chrysler Aust. sent a Valiant over to Italy specifically to have the Webers setup for the Hemi-6, I’m sure most other manufacturers who used them would’ve done the same.

Four progression holes seems to be the go-to for aftermarket Weber’s on a street car. I think some Dellorto’s had more than four - from memory. I do have a book on them which explains it all buried somewhere.

 

[Bewy]

Dave,
I have one of J. Passini's book on Webers. Is there more than one...& is it still available? The one I have: ISBN 9781855207592

 

[Ted265]

steering i got there eventually collected up parts for a few years took me a long time to pluck up the courage....
Manual steering box rebuild - Mopar Muscle Association UK

and for your webers.... if they are of the new spanish type they have a vacuum port with a cap on below the blades near the progression hole well cap. screw in one of these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301566311994?

and you can run the vacuum through one of these to stop the advance fluttering.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Various-Vacuum-Advance-Distributor-APV001/dp/B00DHH15VG?tag=fabo03-20

look up APV 001 you will find em for less... 1 carb pulls enough vacuum to take idle advance up to the high 20s early 30s once running. makes it snappy off the throttle.... but the advance pulls back quick to your chosen curve as the blades open....

Dave

Thanks for the link Dave, got it bookmarked
I've got a spare steering box hanging around that I might convert to 16:1 ratio and swap in the next time i have the front end appart.
My webers are E37/E48 carbs so the rear carb has the vacuum fitting I just capped it off, will give one of those anti pulse valves a go.