stumblinhorse
Well-Known Member
@MOPEkidD-3 who did your heads? My J's arrive today and am on the fence for leaving them alone or taking them somewhere for some work.
Junkyard 5.9L Magnum + Edelbrock LA heads build
- Thread starter MopaR&D
- Start date
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MopaR&D
Nerd Member
I personally wouldn't do more than a bowl-blend and general light port cleanup on a set of stock iron heads. I didn't even ask to have my heads ported, Bret Bowers at Atlas Performance felt compelled to open them up because he said they were terrible in as-cast form; also the owner Jason Gonzalez is a really solid guy and I think he wanted to do me a favor. I worked at that shop for about a month and couldn't cut it so I think he felt a little bad about that, also I tried bringing in engine parts for machine work multiple times over the past few months and they kept taking too long where I ended up just taking the parts back and going a different route. The porting job I got was worth $1500 in labor btw, not trying to show off just putting in perspective how much work a good porting job is. I'm truly lucky to have gotten that and will always recommend Atlas to anyone I meet locally needing performance engine work.
dusted
Well-Known Member
Examples like this prove why you don’t burn bridges! At some point you will need to get back across.
Glad it’s all coming together and excited to see the results.
Glad it’s all coming together and excited to see the results.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Let's see the flow sheet.
Turbo on a stock bottom is only a matter of time. Have fun while it lasts.
Get it too lean and those cast factory hypers will go bye bye...and shower the inside of that motor once they get flung by the crank and blown into the intake port and other cylinders.
Turbo on a stock bottom is only a matter of time. Have fun while it lasts.
Get it too lean and those cast factory hypers will go bye bye...and shower the inside of that motor once they get flung by the crank and blown into the intake port and other cylinders.
dusted
Well-Known Member
Good job on the carnage!!! What was the boost and afr when this let go?
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Just don't overdo the boost and don't get it lean. A DIY knock sensor and a light on the dash can be found by searching the web.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Happy Thanksgiving! Finally ordered a timing set, Cloyes Billet Street True Roller... cam is now installed with timing cover. I also degreed the cam and it was spot-on.
I got around to checking a couple of the rod bearings and both the upper shells show some copper, looks like new ones are in order. Once I replace all the rod bearings I can install the windage tray and oil pan then it's on to fabbing up the external oiling for the heads.
I got around to checking a couple of the rod bearings and both the upper shells show some copper, looks like new ones are in order. Once I replace all the rod bearings I can install the windage tray and oil pan then it's on to fabbing up the external oiling for the heads.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
No turbo, if I do go forced induction it will be with a centrifugal blower, EFI and no more than 10 lbs boost with water/meth injection regardless of boost level. I'm a firm believer that the extremely low humidity in this region is the main cause of detonation problems and I want to be able to throw water in the mixture pulling those long 6% grades up into the mountains.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
So the new rod bearings are in, took a bit longer because the dummy packaging my Summit order thought 4 packs of rod bearing halves was the same as 8 orders of rod bearings, luckily I called as soon as I noticed they were missing and they sent the rest for free. You can see the copper in the old upper shells (bottom row in the pic). Windage tray is also attached as you can see, def put loc-tite on those tiny bolts.
Next I have to get the oil pan bolted on, clean out the cooling passages and install the freeze plugs... hopefully I'll be able to pick up my heads from the shop this week then I can get the rocker oil feed lines fab'd. She's coming together!!!!
Next I have to get the oil pan bolted on, clean out the cooling passages and install the freeze plugs... hopefully I'll be able to pick up my heads from the shop this week then I can get the rocker oil feed lines fab'd. She's coming together!!!!
Are you going to drill holes in between the holes on your oil filter adapter plate?
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
I'd do it on a 4 hole plate but would pause on the Magnum 6 hole plate.
Don't think I have ever seen a set of rod bearings so uniformly worn with the copper showing the same on all 8. Would make me wonder if the rods are distorting when the nuts are torqued.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
I'm using a Canton billet oil filter plate, just put it on earlier this evening actually.
It's interesting the rod bearings that came out of my last 360 looked the same but worse (it had lots of pinging, that's what ended up killing it). All 8 had even copper showing on the center 1/3-1/2 of the bearing surface. My guess is this engine was just used hard, it was in a Ram 1500 pickup after all and those aren't exactly light. Judging by the inch-thick layer of ranch field mud covering the bottom of the donor JY truck (I knew from the hay, and smell) I'm willing to bet it towed some big ol' trailers possibly beyond its rated capacity.
Not the best junkyard engine but could be a lot worse...
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MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Also I noticed taking off that factory plate it's definitely thicker steel than the LA ones. The moment I popped it loose I thought "I probably could have left that on there and it would have worked perfectly" LOL
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
And the offset is different from what I recently found.
And on the rod bearings, that was just an observation.... your explanations are probably spot on. If the crank is not scored a lot or deeply, then A-OK.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Yup all the rod journals looked great, I think one had a very small scratch going all the way around but I couldn't even catch a fingernail on it, pretty sure I found a piece of debris embedded in the bearing on that journal... speaking of debris I need to get a narrow attachment for my shop vac so I can get ALL the little particles of whatever random crap out of the valley and lifter bores.
I'm also thinking about going to my local Grainger industrial supply and placing an order for some Baldwin oil filters. The parts store ones seem to change around so much I feel like a guinea pig for the filter companies and the Baldwins are still only like $6-8 a piece. Check 'em out guys, our engines use filter model B34, also same for my Jeep 4.0L... if they're good enough for commercial and industrial engines I'm sure they're good for our old Mopars.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Looks like B2 is the long version. Wish they showed data on their website on the particle sizes that the media catches.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
I do too, found this though it looks beefy on the inside at least.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Got the old paint off the intake, thought about just spraying it aluminum but I went all the way and gave it a couple coats of primer, then white before the aluminum. We'll see how it holds up.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Now a question, what head gaskets should I use? My machinist recommended Cometics but I've read the block deck needs a special finish for them to seal right. Is there a better option for head gaskets that will work with aluminum heads on an iron block that are available in .030" thickness or less? Even with .027" Cometics my SCR will barely hit 9.5:1. I would like better head gaskets because I do intend to convert to EFI and add a Procharger at some point (and yes I know all the risks of that, please don't lecture me about boost and blowing stuff up I'm getting tired of hearing it).
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
There is the Mr Gasket 1121G at .028" thick. Not sure how it will hold under boost.... some have noted them not holding as well.... I dunno all the circumstances in their application in those cases however, like: were the decks and head surfaces true, and were the head bolts re-torqued after a few heat cycles?
I've used similar composition gaskets to the 1121G's in my 2.6L Mitsu with 14-15 psi boost for rally use and not had any issues ever...... I take that back: 1 did fail once in a rally, but the head had warped a bit.
Putting a thin coat of KopperKote on would not be a bad idea IHMO.
I've used similar composition gaskets to the 1121G's in my 2.6L Mitsu with 14-15 psi boost for rally use and not had any issues ever...... I take that back: 1 did fail once in a rally, but the head had warped a bit.
Putting a thin coat of KopperKote on would not be a bad idea IHMO.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
So do you think my machinist could be recommending Cometics just because he wants to make sure my engine won't fail and possibly create an issue for him? I know he also mostly deals with Chevies (big blocks and LS builds) are they more sensitive to head gasket type? Then again 1500 HP builds are a daily thing at that shop so my "little" sub-500 HP SBM might be something he's not used to. From what I've read on here over the years it seems like people don't step up to MLS gaskets unless they're building something pretty hairy.
I'm also going to be running head studs so I think that would reduce the chances of a "cheaper" gasket failing even more...? BTW was your 2.6L Mitsu an Aluminum-headed engine?
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Also for the record my thoughts on adding boost are mostly to counteract the lower air density at my altitude. I'm building the car primarily for road racing and 450 HP is too much for the rest of the chassis as it is now, let alone 600+ on a road course; I'm thinking if I ever get the itch to take it to the drag strip I'd be tempted to throw on a Procharger at low boost mainly just for straight-line shenanigans. I just want to have some "room to grow" and not need a full engine rebuild once I want more power which we all know always happens eventually 
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Yes, Mitsu 4 cylinder auto engines have been pretty much all been AL heads since some time in the 60's. Check out the 4G54 turbo engines.
FWIW, we used Cometics on my son's 340 because we wanted an exact thickness at .045" for a specific quench gap. So that is another reason.
But it sounds like your shop just uses them as a matter of course, because of the HP levels. If you determine the head gasket type, then the result of that choice is on you, IMHO; you always seem ready and willing to be responsible for your results.
Head studs take higher clamp loads and are more rigid, so should clamp better so that helps with gaskets slippage and blowout.... not sure it makes the distortion of the block around the bolt holes worse or not.
FWIW, we used Cometics on my son's 340 because we wanted an exact thickness at .045" for a specific quench gap. So that is another reason.
But it sounds like your shop just uses them as a matter of course, because of the HP levels. If you determine the head gasket type, then the result of that choice is on you, IMHO; you always seem ready and willing to be responsible for your results.
Head studs take higher clamp loads and are more rigid, so should clamp better so that helps with gaskets slippage and blowout.... not sure it makes the distortion of the block around the bolt holes worse or not.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Hah! Take up rallying..... once you drive a wet muddy event or an ice and snow event, the desire for more HP fades.... you just can't use it in many/most cases LOL
dusted
Well-Known Member
I’m running cometics on the 390 stroker Its has boost and after suffering a head gasket failure on the duster, I decided this engine would have cometics. I will check and see if I can find the part numbers for the cometics. Btw, I’m also running atock heads.
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