Wedge
Active Member
Has anyone put a "modern" suspension on their A-body (mine's a 72 Swinger) with parts found in a junkyard? I know you can just about do anything if you have the knowledge. That's why I'm asking.
Junkyard suspension?
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Woods74
Broke Senior
73+ Spool K member, with all the trimmings, will do anything you want it to, just look at Steve, autoxcuda.
C130 Chief
Mechanical Genius
What do you mean by "modern"? A downgrade to McPherson struts?
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
Front or rear?
As a "what if", I noticed that the rear leaf springs in my 96 Voyager (not Grand) look like they might fit my Dart. A nice, simple single-piece leaf and the minivan is 3500 lb, so a good fit, plus they are overflowing in junkyards now. An independent rear would be even nicer. For years, hot rodders have installed complete Jaguar IRS's in 32 Ford types. Not sure what makes Jag's so good for that. Looking at the IRS in my 85 M-B diesel says "impossible in a Dart", but never say never. It can probably handle some torque.
Fronts are many times more complicated, with steering, issues and thus more risk of killing yourself when driving. Even an Aspen/Volare front end would not fit a Dart. Best bet are the after-market kits that weld to your frame and give coil springs and rack steering, but $$$$.
As a "what if", I noticed that the rear leaf springs in my 96 Voyager (not Grand) look like they might fit my Dart. A nice, simple single-piece leaf and the minivan is 3500 lb, so a good fit, plus they are overflowing in junkyards now. An independent rear would be even nicer. For years, hot rodders have installed complete Jaguar IRS's in 32 Ford types. Not sure what makes Jag's so good for that. Looking at the IRS in my 85 M-B diesel says "impossible in a Dart", but never say never. It can probably handle some torque.
Fronts are many times more complicated, with steering, issues and thus more risk of killing yourself when driving. Even an Aspen/Volare front end would not fit a Dart. Best bet are the after-market kits that weld to your frame and give coil springs and rack steering, but $$$$.
magnumdust
Well-Known Member
The design makes it an easy fit between framerails and narrowing/widening the axels is not as difficult.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/atta...485d1358797097-budget-ifs-irs-11112980090.jpg
The problem is that, they have HP limitations. I looked into this briefly. That suspension is really popular for cobra replicas and fully upgraded rear ends in a light little cobra will break at 500ish hp on slicks.
To the OP, this forum has a lot of purists. So it would be unlikely that anyone here upgraded to some modern coilspring/rack and pinion suspension from a newer car. Your best bet up front would be a coilover kit from HDK/Reilly motorsports/control freak.(avoid magnumforce like the plague)
nerd racing
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I'd go with a Hemi Danny setup if you have to ditch the torsion bars. His prices vs what you get are the best out there. Plus I have yet to hear any negative feedback and he directly supports his products.
Wedge
Active Member
I dont have a HP beast. I live in a twisty area so cornering is my main concern. I just like to do it fast.:burnout:
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
The stock unequal length control arm front suspension is basically pretty good, and so is the torsion bar design. If thre are later parts in the same series that will do well, like to get front discs, then I would do that but not a bunch more to the front besides the ususal repalcing, upgrading of bushings, etc. As I recall, the roads around Kerrville are not too rough (as in potholes and frost heaves) so I would strongly consider poly bushings in parts of the front suspension (except the LCA's).
Do you have anti-sway bars in your car? If not, look into the available items and add both front and a smaller one in the rear. The front is available as a boneyard item.
The rear suspension is the area that needs the most work. Are you into minor fabrication? Or just parts changeouts?
If you have the $$ to spring for Bilstein shocks, you will be thankful that you did, despite the cost. There are a lot of faster curvy roads in your area (beautiful area BTW!), and these would be golden in your situation; the control over the suspension movements is more that what you havae probably ever experienced. I don't want to sound too ecstatic, but they are GOOD.
Do you have anti-sway bars in your car? If not, look into the available items and add both front and a smaller one in the rear. The front is available as a boneyard item.
The rear suspension is the area that needs the most work. Are you into minor fabrication? Or just parts changeouts?
If you have the $$ to spring for Bilstein shocks, you will be thankful that you did, despite the cost. There are a lot of faster curvy roads in your area (beautiful area BTW!), and these would be golden in your situation; the control over the suspension movements is more that what you havae probably ever experienced. I don't want to sound too ecstatic, but they are GOOD.
Wedge
Active Member
Sorry for the late reply and thanks for all the tips. You guys rock!
First: Negatory on the anti-sway bars there nm9stheham.
Second: I will likely lean towards fabrications at my pal's shop because the $3k my wife "allowed" me to spend on my Dart mysteriously vanished! Now I'm just a commoner...a normal broke guy with a sweet /6 that needs some suspension hep.
Now before anyone gives me crap for my 225... know that it has power steering and modern ac, AND it takes all of 20 seconds to crank up and idle in the winter! I can hop in it and take it cross country and not break the bank, as they say. Its a cruiser for sure. Besides, I don't really have anywhere to drag so what's the point? (On a side-rant: I often find myself flipping through catalogs imagining what my Dart could be. Modern touches are great but I feel it robs from why we got the cars in the first place and what it is that makes them so dang cool! And after a completely S**** day, all i do is get behind the wheel [running or not] and everything just feels better.) Maybe that's just me though!
First: Negatory on the anti-sway bars there nm9stheham.
Second: I will likely lean towards fabrications at my pal's shop because the $3k my wife "allowed" me to spend on my Dart mysteriously vanished! Now I'm just a commoner...a normal broke guy with a sweet /6 that needs some suspension hep.
Now before anyone gives me crap for my 225... know that it has power steering and modern ac, AND it takes all of 20 seconds to crank up and idle in the winter! I can hop in it and take it cross country and not break the bank, as they say. Its a cruiser for sure. Besides, I don't really have anywhere to drag so what's the point? (On a side-rant: I often find myself flipping through catalogs imagining what my Dart could be. Modern touches are great but I feel it robs from why we got the cars in the first place and what it is that makes them so dang cool! And after a completely S**** day, all i do is get behind the wheel [running or not] and everything just feels better.) Maybe that's just me though!
Woods74
Broke Senior
Hey, you don't need a fancy front end to take corners! Do it on the cheap, 1"+ torsion bars, sway bar; Moog hockey puck strut rod, and offset UCA bushings.
If you can get the K frame out, I recommend reinforcing it in the places people talk about; LCA hole, steering box area, and possibly skip welds around the perimeter. Tighten up the LCA and brace them like Jim Lusk did a video about.
Check out this article as well:
[ame]http://www.moparaction.com/tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf[/ame]
It's not to terrible of a job, I did all of this, with KYB shocks, my car goes where the hell I put it with alacrity, the ride is gorgeous. You will pull serious G's on a skid pad with these simple tips.
On a last note, you can do the alignment yourself, its a piece of cake, don't trust anybody else besides you!
If you can get the K frame out, I recommend reinforcing it in the places people talk about; LCA hole, steering box area, and possibly skip welds around the perimeter. Tighten up the LCA and brace them like Jim Lusk did a video about.
Check out this article as well:
[ame]http://www.moparaction.com/tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf[/ame]
It's not to terrible of a job, I did all of this, with KYB shocks, my car goes where the hell I put it with alacrity, the ride is gorgeous. You will pull serious G's on a skid pad with these simple tips.
On a last note, you can do the alignment yourself, its a piece of cake, don't trust anybody else besides you!
Wedge
Active Member
Sounds good to me!
clhyer
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Hmmm, doing it on the cheap are we?
Here is a link to an article for a cheap rear sway bar upgrade. I did this on my '72 Duster. In fact, I used the tranny, driveshaft and rear axle out of the M body Gran Fury I had.
http://www.cloudfactory.org/~josh/barracuda/rearswaytech.html
You need the front sway bar first. A later model K frame and swap over to discs and bbp lets you upgrade to 15" skins too... You should be able to sell the wife on this upgrade for "safety reasons"!
C
Here is a link to an article for a cheap rear sway bar upgrade. I did this on my '72 Duster. In fact, I used the tranny, driveshaft and rear axle out of the M body Gran Fury I had.
http://www.cloudfactory.org/~josh/barracuda/rearswaytech.html
You need the front sway bar first. A later model K frame and swap over to discs and bbp lets you upgrade to 15" skins too... You should be able to sell the wife on this upgrade for "safety reasons"!
C
autoxcuda
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SUSPENSION
•TORSION BARS: .99" 184 Lb./ft wheel rate. Stock was .87" 109 Lb./ft. Not too stiff for 80 miles round trip to work commuting.
•REAR SPRINGS: Stock for 8¾ 68 Formula S. Car seems balanced now. Might need stiffer so don't need rear sway bar. If so, will just add leaves to dial in. But soft helps planting and rear transfer. Good shocks might have to come first. Need testing to sort out.
•73-76 K-member: reinforced
•FRONT SWAY BAR: Hellwig 1 1/4" hollow (had a used $40 addco before that)
•REAR SWAY BAR: ¾" dia. Addco aftermarket ($35 used)
•SHOCKS: Front QA1 single adj ($75 used) blew out all my hand-me-down used Konis, Rears: Hand me down KYB's
•POLYGRAPHITE: sway bar, brake strut rods, lower control arms. Leaf bushings; can hear slight resonance when added to rear. Would not use LCA poly again.
•UPPER A-ARM BUSHINGS: offset, Moog prt.# 7103 installed opposite, more caster, more road feel, more high speed stability
•STEERING STEERING GEAR: Replacement Mopar remanufactured. Large steering gear spline, crisp, firmer, but not Firm Feel
•PITMAN, IDLER, CENTERLINK: all ‘73-‘76 A-body, to accept large spline gear
•POWER STEERING FLUID: Justice Brothers heavy duty, don't change often, so extra cost is cheap assurance
•POWER STEERING CAP: later style multi knobbed style with rubber baffle to stop spitting up.
•Future plans: Adding factory power steering cooler, in-line filter, and braided lines for power steering .
BRAKES
•PADS: Discontinued Mopar Police Spec Semi Metalic units ($15 swap meet score)
•DISKS: 11.75" dia junkyard single piston disks
•BRAKE LINES: braided, w/banjo on caliper end for rear caliper placement
•BRAKE FLUID: Justice Brothers High Performance Dot 4
•MASTER CYLINDER: Mopar Performance alum. 2 bolt, 1-1/32" bore, firm immediate pedal, feels great, not for your grandma. Started with manual drums. Thicker master cly adapter to adj. pedal height down. Be aware of pushrod length.
•PROPORTIONING VALVE: Willwood adjustable, had drum brakes so need some proportioning valve
•DRUMS: vented "bell or hat" drums for cooling
•REAR AXLES: 4 ½" bolt redrilled pattern
WHEELS (tons of different wheel combo's over the years)
•15x7 4 1/4" backspace cop rims with 225/60/15 speed rated tires. <-Inexpensive place to start.
INTERIOR
•STEERING WHEEL: LaCarra 15" padded leather, better grip, small dia. gives more responsive feel ($30 never installed swap meet score)
•SEATS: Used Toyota Celica GTS increased g’s so need better seats, must race car from drivers side
Picture when I first did the suspension in '93 with stock front sway bar and 68-72 biscuit K-member.
•TORSION BARS: .99" 184 Lb./ft wheel rate. Stock was .87" 109 Lb./ft. Not too stiff for 80 miles round trip to work commuting.
•REAR SPRINGS: Stock for 8¾ 68 Formula S. Car seems balanced now. Might need stiffer so don't need rear sway bar. If so, will just add leaves to dial in. But soft helps planting and rear transfer. Good shocks might have to come first. Need testing to sort out.
•73-76 K-member: reinforced
•FRONT SWAY BAR: Hellwig 1 1/4" hollow (had a used $40 addco before that)
•REAR SWAY BAR: ¾" dia. Addco aftermarket ($35 used)
•SHOCKS: Front QA1 single adj ($75 used) blew out all my hand-me-down used Konis, Rears: Hand me down KYB's
•POLYGRAPHITE: sway bar, brake strut rods, lower control arms. Leaf bushings; can hear slight resonance when added to rear. Would not use LCA poly again.
•UPPER A-ARM BUSHINGS: offset, Moog prt.# 7103 installed opposite, more caster, more road feel, more high speed stability
•STEERING STEERING GEAR: Replacement Mopar remanufactured. Large steering gear spline, crisp, firmer, but not Firm Feel
•PITMAN, IDLER, CENTERLINK: all ‘73-‘76 A-body, to accept large spline gear
•POWER STEERING FLUID: Justice Brothers heavy duty, don't change often, so extra cost is cheap assurance
•POWER STEERING CAP: later style multi knobbed style with rubber baffle to stop spitting up.
•Future plans: Adding factory power steering cooler, in-line filter, and braided lines for power steering .
BRAKES
•PADS: Discontinued Mopar Police Spec Semi Metalic units ($15 swap meet score)
•DISKS: 11.75" dia junkyard single piston disks
•BRAKE LINES: braided, w/banjo on caliper end for rear caliper placement
•BRAKE FLUID: Justice Brothers High Performance Dot 4
•MASTER CYLINDER: Mopar Performance alum. 2 bolt, 1-1/32" bore, firm immediate pedal, feels great, not for your grandma. Started with manual drums. Thicker master cly adapter to adj. pedal height down. Be aware of pushrod length.
•PROPORTIONING VALVE: Willwood adjustable, had drum brakes so need some proportioning valve
•DRUMS: vented "bell or hat" drums for cooling
•REAR AXLES: 4 ½" bolt redrilled pattern
WHEELS (tons of different wheel combo's over the years)
•15x7 4 1/4" backspace cop rims with 225/60/15 speed rated tires. <-Inexpensive place to start.
INTERIOR
•STEERING WHEEL: LaCarra 15" padded leather, better grip, small dia. gives more responsive feel ($30 never installed swap meet score)
•SEATS: Used Toyota Celica GTS increased g’s so need better seats, must race car from drivers side
Picture when I first did the suspension in '93 with stock front sway bar and 68-72 biscuit K-member.
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