Keep my garage moisture free

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  1. Joey4speed

    Joey4speed FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Screenshot_20201225-213113_Chrome.jpg
     
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    • Phreakish

      Phreakish Well-Known Member

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      Exactly!
       
    • famous bob

      famous bob mopar misfit

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      It did a big commercial bldg. I worked in one time , then the spray foam started falling off--------jfi
       
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      • Evan Dutch

        Evan Dutch Well-Known Member

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        so it would be better for me to install the panels over the existing metal framing, then fasten the insulation panels to the framing, rather than installing insulation panels between the framing?
         
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        • 383Scampman

          383Scampman Well-Known Member

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          Yes , as long they are on 24/7 . THat will stabilize the moisture content allowing you to control the humidity
           
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          • Joey4speed

            Joey4speed FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Im hoping that was years ago. There weren't many guys applying it, or even certified to do so.
            The products in use now seem to be pretty damn good, plus the application process has evloved.
             
          • famous bob

            famous bob mopar misfit

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            The fiberglass, thick plastic skinned ins. that bldg. companies install has proven to be the best around here , working in and out of and on those bldgs for 52 yrs. influences my opinion ------
             
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            • odcics2

              odcics2 Well-Known Member

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              Yes!!
              Too late for thick plastic underneath the concrete.
               
            • Evan Dutch

              Evan Dutch Well-Known Member

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              I had thick plastic laid down before the slab was poured
               
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              • Phreakish

                Phreakish Well-Known Member

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                Yes. Between can work, but it will have multiple drawbacks. Heat will be conducted in/out by the metal framing, but worse it will allow condensation to form at the edges of some of your insulating panels. This can draw bugs and mold etc.

                One sealed envelope will help seal the wind out and will also be a neater install in my opinion.
                 
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                • Evan Dutch

                  Evan Dutch Well-Known Member

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                  Darn, what sucks is I already have my electrical installed over my framing.

                  AEBF9DA4-DD51-44F2-86C9-1A07B2FACBDD.jpeg
                   
                • Ceedawg

                  Ceedawg Well-Known Member

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                  Pole building 40x60x12 that bubble wrap under the metal siding and roof. 6x6 beams 8 ft on center. I put 2x6s 4 ft between beams then used 6” thick fiberglass battens 24” wide stapled together to make 4ft then 1/2 osb ply over that osb in the ceiling but no insulation up there yet. Still get a little moisture in the summer so I’m thinking of some type of air flow (no windows) 80 thousand btu oil furnace and two 110 ac window type units on each end of building. I can keep it 70 year round in Va
                   
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                  • Phreakish

                    Phreakish Well-Known Member

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                    Everything in life is a compromise, LOL. Anything will be better than nothing, just take as much care on the details as you can manage.
                     
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                    • dogbreath

                      dogbreath Well-Known Member

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                      cut the rigid boards and stuff them between the uprights then foil tape the seams , if you make them tight enough no need to fasten them in place . same for the roof then screws with large washers into the purlins ...done , easy peasy
                       
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                      • Evan Dutch

                        Evan Dutch Well-Known Member

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                        Ok guys, after some additional research I think I have a plan for what I am going to do. I think I am going to use 1 inch polyiso foam boards (foil on both sides). And place them between the beams, while foil taping the exposed metal on the beams to prevent condensation (does that sound right?).

                        Once the foam boards are up, I plan on using a thick plastic vapor barrier to cover the foam board insulation. I’ll be insulating the walls first, and then the roof. Once the building is fully insulated, I plan on installing a wood burning heater along the back wall (the wall across from the large doors) towards the center of the wall so it can heat the shop evenly.

                        IMO this should be a relatively simple, cost effective way of insulating my shop.

                        what do you guys think?
                         
                      • mcodecuda

                        mcodecuda Senior Member

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                        When my pole building was built the contractor installed either 1/2” or 3/4” foil covered styrofoam between the wooden frame and the metal sheeting and fiberglass with foil backing between the rafters and the steel roofing. There is a vapor barrier under the concrete floor and the floor is sealed. I have no issues with moisture and plan on upgrading the insulation and installing a HVAC sometime in the future.
                         
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                        • dogbreath

                          dogbreath Well-Known Member

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                          Another option is to space the boards away from your siding which would add an air space and the rigid boards themselves would not come in contact with the siding and condensation. Your roof has the purlins which will give you a 1¨ air space . Unfortunely due to the horizonally mounted siding you have no purlins on the vertical walls . After you cut your fitted boards you can glue several approx 4-6¨ strips of excess board material to the back of your fitted boards to give you a 1¨ air gap.
                           
                        • Evan Dutch

                          Evan Dutch Well-Known Member

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                          if I cut the boards to fit between the uprights on the walls I think I can wedge them between the framing. The tubing for the framework on the walls is 2inch. If I install the boards flush with the tubing on the inside of the structure, that should leave me 1inch of airspace behind the boards
                           
                        • Phreakish

                          Phreakish Well-Known Member

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                          You'll want a layer of foam over each exposed metal member, otherwise those cold beams will still sweat inside.

                          The idea of leaving a gap and securing directly to your framing is a good one, but the air space will act more like a "rain screen" and won't necessarily make the wall better insulated.

                          Since you have surface mounted electrical, I'd stick to your plan of going between beams (and overlapping a second layer over each beam). Later on you can add another layer and a few years later another layer... Etc.

                          Don't bother with the interior vapor barrier. The foil facing of the foam will act as one already (usually) and having the ability to diffuse any random moisture is still a good thing. Some sort of durable wall board would be a good idea to protect the foam boards. Plywood, osb, hardboard, drywall, concrete board, doesn't matter a ton, but any all-wood materials are at greater risk for fire than drywall (which actually produces moisture/water as it gets heated) or concrete board.

                          Since drywall sucks up standing water and is easily damaged, I like thin cement board for the first 4' or so of a garage wall.. But that's just me.


                          Another option would be to layer metal siding on the inside.. Durable, easy to replace, no mud or mortar to install it and can be taken down to augment your insulation in the future. Also less prone to fire/burning. Even corrugated metal roof panels could be used, even if only partially sheathing the wall.

                          Just my $.02
                           
                        • Evan Dutch

                          Evan Dutch Well-Known Member

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                          I didn’t even think about putting small pieces of foam over the framing... duh haha

                          what do you mean by rain shield?

                          I like the idea of covering the insulation with something but I’m worried about the additional weight it would impose on the structure
                           
                        • Phreakish

                          Phreakish Well-Known Member

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                          Rain shield or rain screen is a term used to describe an exterior cladding that has an air space behind it. In contemporary construction it's done to prevent trapping rain or condensation between the cladding and the exterior sheathing or wind barrier. It can act as a radiant barrier space and also a thermal gap to prevent conduction from the framing to the exterior. The draw back is that it gives bugs a great hiding place and makes a wall assembly thicker for not a lot of gain in true insulation performance.

                          The weight of any interior wallboard is good to keep in mind. A sill plate could be bolted to the foundation and used to support the weight of the wall off the framing. Use good pressure treated lumber and it should last plenty long enough. As long as you're not framing a lumber wall to hold the interior sheathing, the slab should be sufficient to hold up the dead load it may impart. Metal siding would likely be the lightest per square foot and drywall (1/2 or thicker) the heaviest. You can look at lightweight drywall too, which is easier to handle if nothing else.
                           
                        • Evan Dutch

                          Evan Dutch Well-Known Member

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                          Ah, ok

                          yeah, I have had bugs find their way into my shop. I bought some foam that is molded to the shape of the metal siding that I’ll be installing in all 4 corners of the shop to help prevent the bugs.
                           
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