1. Kllrbee

    Kllrbee Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys,
    My steering is everywhere when I hit a bump or a curve in the road. Noticed the LCA bushing on pass side is shot. The torsion bar is sitting on the bottom of the opening. The drivers side not as bad but its going too. Would that be enough to throw the alignment completely off and cause all the "bump steer" issues.
    I know its not true bump steer and that term gets thrown around alot. Im just using it in a general sense here to describe whats happening.

    Ill obviously replace them regardless. Just trying to pinpoint the issue.

    Also good time to upgrade to PST 1.03 bars and 1 1/8 sway bar.

    Thanks
     
  2. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    That’s more than enough to throw out the alignment.

    And it’s not like it’s a static alignment change, ie, your alignment is wrong but constant. Wrong but always the same. With worn out bushings, especially LCA bushings, the alignment is constantly changing because the LCA’s are moving around with suspension input.

    You’ll have to replace those bushings before you can put an alignment on the car that will stick.
     
  3. 72Dart6pack

    72Dart6pack Harder Better Faster Stronger.

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    Just did a set not that long ago. Easy to replace. :)

    Message_14965205086811.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  4. Kllrbee

    Kllrbee Well-Known Member

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    Yup, thats what I figured. Pretty obvious now that I think about it.
    I didnt even notice them cuz I was so focused on finding the slop in the steering linkage and BJs. Those are good. Stock steering box so not "good"...but normal.
    Anyways, glad I found the culprit. Time for some upgrades.

    Those LCAs look great brother. Nice job!
     
  5. 72Dart6pack

    72Dart6pack Harder Better Faster Stronger.

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    Thanks. :)
     
  6. 72Dart6pack

    72Dart6pack Harder Better Faster Stronger.

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    They were installed on this.

    20170704_220802.jpg
     
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    • Kllrbee

      Kllrbee Well-Known Member

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      Sweet!
      Goin all out.

      Question for me now is what all I SHOULD replace now that I will have it all apart.
      LCA bushings are a given. Ive decided on the PST Torsion and sway bar. Might as well do UCA bushings as they are starting to crack.
      The BJs and all the steering linkage looks good tho. Should I replace the BJ's and TRE's anyways since they have to come apart?

      Will probly just go Moog with all that unless u guys have any recomendations.

      Thanks again
       
    • dukeboy_318

      dukeboy_318 Our Lives, Our Fortunes and Our Sacred Honor. FABO Gold Member

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      I would. Far easier to do it once and be done then to do it multiple times. Plus, it’s svae your money and time on the re alignment costs. I’d get a whole front rebuilt kit.
       
    • ir3333

      ir3333 Well-Known Member

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      if your ball joints and tie rod ends are good i'd leave them alone.Although a lot of the off shore stuff is pretty good now you never can be sure.You might be replacing them with inferior pieces?
      And if they are good why replace them?
       
    • 72bluNblu

      72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      If you haven’t personally replaced the ball joints and tie rods yourself recently, change them out. You have to pull everything apart anyway, you might as well change them now. If you don’t put a ton of miles on the car it may be the last time you have to do it. If you leave them in there and then have to replace them later you have to pull everything apart again and do another alignment.

      Moog’s quality has dropped off recently. I would still use the Moog K7103 offset UCA bushings if you have the stock UCA’s only because they’re the only offset bushings for the uppers and the additional caster you can get with those will improve the steering feel and handling. Beyond that I would avoid Moog. Proforged makes pretty much all of those parts, I’ve been happy with the quality of their stuff. I replaced a nearly brand new set of Moog lower ball joints that has a ton of play after only a few thousand miles with a set from Proforged recently and they were better quality.
       
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      • 1975abody

        1975abody Well-Known Member

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        Agreed. I recently installed a set of Moog lca bushings,and instead of being a press fit on the lca pin, they were a slip fit. I mic'd the od of the pin, and they were within a half a thou of some other pins I had on the shelf. Had to knurl the pins to get a good press fit.

        The next set of lca bushings I bought were Pro Forged. I only needed them for the inner shell.I found that instead of the rubber being a friction fit between the inner and outer shell like the Moog, they were molded to the shells. Needless to say, it was a fight to separate them.

        So I am not sure how the Proforged molded bushings would hold up versus the traditional friction fit bushings. Would the molded be more likely to tear?
         
      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        To be completely fair I haven’t used a rubber set of the Proforged LCA bushings.

        But based on how the rubber bushings are supposed to function I wouldn’t think so. There shouldn’t be any movement between the rubber and the shells, all the movement is taken up by the flex in the rubber. That’s why the LCA pivot pins have to be torqued at ride height. The rubber in the friction fit bushings doesn’t slide on the shells when they’re installed either. So I wouldn’t think it would make a difference either way. The fit between the LCA and the shell and the pin and the shell is more important.
         
      • Kllrbee

        Kllrbee Well-Known Member

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        So Moog went to shit huh?
        That sux. I used their bushings on a couple B bodies and they held up well. But that was years ago.
        Ill look around, but most likely ill just get the rebuild kit from PST.
         
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        • dukeboy_318

          dukeboy_318 Our Lives, Our Fortunes and Our Sacred Honor. FABO Gold Member

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          They shifted production to Asia
           
        • TrailBeast

          TrailBeast Slightly Twisted Member

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          My Dart would literally change lanes by itself if I ran over one of those reflectors they put between lanes on hiways.
          (LCA bushings)
          Did all the front rubber with PST poly and the 1.03 bars and that was that.
          Drives great now.
           
        • Kllrbee

          Kllrbee Well-Known Member

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          Thats what its doing. Pretty scary actually...not fun. Good to hear that solved it.
          Would you recommend the poly over rubber?
          Ive heard they feel "stiff" and can be noisy.
           
        • mobileparts

          mobileparts Well-Known Member

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          MOOG bushings are manufactured with MOOG equipment in Mexico -- not Asia -- because or rubber disposal laws (the excess / leftover / waste)....
          Their quality is still the best -- and Mexico doesn't care what is thrown out (look at their whole country -- but that's another long - winded story!!!!!) while the U.S.A. does -- and "forced" MOOG to head to Mexico.
           
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          • 72bluNblu

            72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Sorry, but their quality is NOT the best anymore. Not by a long shot. Multiple members here have had issues with the diameter of the inner shells as of late, they are not toleranced correctly for the stock pivot pins. And the quality of the rubber isn’t anywhere near what it used to be.

            The quality control on their ball joints has been hit and miss for years. I got several that were either loose and sloppy right out of the box or overly tight. Heck I even got one that didn’t have any threads on the taper.

            Haven’t had issues like that with Proforged, or any of the other companies I’ve used to avoid Moog for the last few years. If someone else would make the offset UCA bushings I wouldn’t recommend any of their stuff anymore.
             
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            • hemi71x

              hemi71x FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Yep, just had that exact thing happen to me with a pair of LCA's that i rebuilt, and sold to a member here on this forum.
              Bad "shell" around the rubber, in the lower control arm bushing, where the shaft presses in.
              My customer sent the LCA back to me, and i made it right with a Proforged bushing, and sent it back, and reimbursed him on the UPS charge.
              Ya, MOOG quality has gone down the toilet.
               
            • GMachineDartGT

              GMachineDartGT Senior Member

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              Might want to consider delrin for guys wanting a step up in LCA material. It’s harder than urethane and is self lubricating so it’s quiet. They elimate the need for outer shells an inners too when used with my pivots.
               
            • kursplat

              kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              and they're nice to look at until you can get around to installing them. you need to put your website link in your sig so the new guys can find it wink-gif.gif
               
              Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
            • 72bluNblu

              72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              I love the Delrin bushings from BergmanAutocraft in my Duster. The only reason I didn't mention them here is because I personally think they're better suited for use with adjustable strut rods. The reduction in flex at the LCA bushing could mean more potential binding if the strut rod isn't exactly the right length. And the factory strut rods are anything but exact. In some cases it would probably be fine, but not necessarily all. Suspension components all have to work together, so if you take out flex and play in one area it means you probably have to address it somewhere else too.
               
            • Kllrbee

              Kllrbee Well-Known Member

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              Great advice. Im sticking with rubber and will go with either proforged as recomended here or the PST kit.
              Might start a new thread for this, but Im finding conflicting opinions about the PST kit. Some say their BJs are hit or miss and the customer service leaves something to be desired.
              I know there have been plenty here who have dealt with them, so some real world experience would be helpful.
               
            • 72bluNblu

              72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              I’m no help on that, I usually piecemeal everything and haven’t done much business with PST. Problem with kits is they don’t work all that well when your car has components from a bunch of different years and an assortment of aftermarket parts. Or mostly aftermarket parts like my car at this point.

              Not sure what brand ball joints PST uses either. Another issue with kits like that, you don’t always get a breakdown of where it all comes from.
               
              • Agree Agree x 1
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