Lean Out Valve for Alcohol questions

[demon322]

I have been contemplating this for awhile but unfortunately never got to ask him directly (RIP John.)

I am switching over to alcohol for this season and a lot of the reason and recommendations came from reading posts by PBR on here (I had APD convert my carb to alcohol for example.) I read several posts by him recommending running a lean-out valve to get heat in the engine. I think I understand the basics, but was wondering if anyone here has some pictures of their setup they could share?

I know I’ll need to drill and install a fitting in my spacer, and run a hose inside to a 1/2 ball valve. I’m very much a visual learner so would love to see some pictures if they are out there. That is one thing I haven’t found in all my searching (probably because it is so simple most would thing pictures aren’t necessary!)

This is a picture of my intake/spacer setup. I think I’d rather have the fitting in my spacer rather than drill the intake if possible.

Thanks in advance

 

[HuntedDuckV351]

Does your base plate happen to have a port on the back of it? If so you could put the hose into it, if not then drill and tap you spacer is a good idea over the intake IMO. I use to run the ball valve set up but switched to a push pull valve for a cleaner set up. Contender Performance sells them. I will try and get you a picture tomorrow

 

[demon322]

Does your base plate happen to have a port on the back of it? If so you could put the hose into it, if not then drill and tap you spacer is a good idea over the intake IMO. I use to run the ball valve set up but switched to a push pull valve for a cleaner set up. Contender Performance sells them. I will try and get you a picture tomorrow

No there are no ports on this intake like some I have seen so I agree the spacer is probably my best bet. It technically is an adapter spacer to mount a dominator 4500 carb to a 4150 intake. It tapers down in the middle but still has a flat place on the outside that looks like it could be drilled.

 

[tvt59]

1 drilled and tapped my 2" spacer for 10an fitting then put two 90 deg elbows in it and screwed a 1/2" electric ball valve in it. I can open and close it from inside the car.

 

[demon322]

Does your base plate happen to have a port on the back of it? If so you could put the hose into it, if not then drill and tap you spacer is a good idea over the intake IMO. I use to run the ball valve set up but switched to a push pull valve for a cleaner set up. Contender Performance sells them. I will try and get you a picture tomorrow

Is this the setup you were talking about? Looks like they sell 2 versions with the only difference being one comes with a bracket. I would like to see those pictures if you still wouldn’t mind. Especially how you have it set up inside the car.

Was the ball valve set up working good? I get that the shifnoid system would probably look slicker. I also like that it’s a one stop purchase rather than tracking down fittings and hose and a valve. Just trying to justify the extra expense. Thanks!

 

[HuntedDuckV351]

Is this the setup you were talking about? Looks like they sell 2 versions with the only difference being one comes with a bracket. I would like to see those pictures if you still wouldn’t mind. Especially how you have it set up inside the car.

Was the ball valve set up working good? I get that the shifnoid system would probably look slicker. I also like that it’s a one stop purchase rather than tracking down fittings and hose and a valve. Just trying to justify the extra expense. Thanks!

View attachment 1716376754

Yes sir it is....sorry been trying to get a picture just can't get to the car yet

 

[HuntedDuckV351]

I did it for looks....yeah they ball valve works fine

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I’ll tell you a true story. This was a AA/GS legal car.

I was walking across the pits one morning and that AA car was getting ready to crack off. I was there with my boss who ran the same class.

Anyway, I had my ear covers so I put them on. I usually didn’t but he was between the trailers.

So I’m watching the engine warm up a bit, and I see the blower belt getting tight. The crew chief saw it too, and grabbed the shut off valve and leaned the engine out to hurry it up.

Not 5 seconds later I thought I heard it rattling. I pop off the ear covers and I don’t hear it. Back on, I hear it.

He’s still got the shut off valve partially closed when they drop it in gear and start loading the engine and clutch. Now it’s rattling its *** off.

Take the ear covers off and you can’t hear it. Back on and it’s clear as day.

They shut it off and I went to the crew chief and told him what was happening. He doesn’t know me. He was Canadian I think.

Then he tells me I’m full of ****. So I walk away.

I tell my boss what I heard and he’s skeptical. None of us usually wore hearing protection. So my boss (driver and co owner) and the other owner put on ear covers.

Sure as hell it was rattling. They quit doing that right there.

A month or so later they were in Boise or somewhere and I had to stay at the shop and work.

The car I first heard rattling **** some rods out first run.

My point is at the time I was running MFI but I was NA, doing the same thing.

I stopped doing it.

If you can get any heat in the engine warming it up, the barrel valve is too fat. I always leak them down so I know my starting point.

If it’s too fat to heat up I lean the barrel valve 2-3 flats. I leave it there. If it’s too fat to warm up it will be too fat down low all day.

I do the opposite if it’s lean.

I never ever open the butterflies after the initial idle speed is set. If you open the butterflies you also open the barrel valve. That’s working at cross purposes.

Not even NA do I open the shut off valve or use a lean out valve.

That’s some bad mojo juju for me.

Just an FYI

 

[gregsdart]

I’ll tell you a true story. This was a AA/GS legal car.

I was walking across the pits one morning and that AA car was getting ready to crack off. I was there with my boss who ran the same class.

Anyway, I had my ear covers so I put them on. I usually didn’t but he was between the trailers.

So I’m watching the engine warm up a bit, and I see the blower belt getting tight. The crew chief saw it too, and grabbed the shut off valve and leaned the engine out to hurry it up.

Not 5 seconds later I thought I heard it rattling. I pop off the ear covers and I don’t hear it. Back on, I hear it.

He’s still got the shut off valve partially closed when they drop it in gear and start loading the engine and clutch. Now it’s rattling its *** off.

Take the ear covers off and you can’t hear it. Back on and it’s clear as day.

They shut it off and I went to the crew chief and told him what was happening. He doesn’t know me. He was Canadian I think.

Then he tells me I’m full of ****. So I walk away.

I tell my boss what I heard and he’s skeptical. None of us usually wore hearing protection. So my boss (driver and co owner) and the other owner put on ear covers.

Sure as hell it was rattling. They quit doing that right there.

A month or so later they were in Boise or somewhere and I had to stay at the shop and work.

The car I first heard rattling **** some rods out first run.

My point is at the time I was running MFI but I was NA, doing the same thing.

I stopped doing it.

If you can get any heat in the engine warming it up, the barrel valve is too fat. I always leak them down so I know my starting point.

If it’s too fat to heat up I lean the barrel valve 2-3 flats. I leave it there. If it’s too fat to warm up it will be too fat down low all day.

I do the opposite if it’s lean.

I never ever open the butterflies after the initial idle speed is set. If you open the butterflies you also open the barrel valve. That’s working at cross purposes.

Not even NA do I open the shut off valve or use a lean out valve.

That’s some bad mojo juju for me.

Just an FYI

Air and fuel settings need to be figured out separately. With injection, a fat idle that slows warmup is needed to coverup the lack of an accelerator pump, and provides enough fuel to not cough and die when you crack the throttle . But it is too fat for building heat fast. For warmup i used the shutoff valve to cut idle fuel flow, and rpm rises from 1400 to about 2400 to show exhaust temps up over 900 degrees for warmup. I went to a primer plus system to use pumpgas a couple years ago to save money and make it easier to warm up, and then clear the motor of methanol at the end of the day . Its like a nitrous plate, with a fuel line and small pump plus a one gallon tank for the pumpgas.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Air and fuel settings need to be figured out separately. With injection, a fat idle that slows warmup is needed to coverup the lack of an accelerator pump, and provides enough fuel to not cough and die when you crack the throttle . But it is too fat for building heat fast. For warmup i used the shutoff valve to cut idle fuel flow, and rpm rises from 1400 to about 2400 to show exhaust temps up over 900 degrees for warmup. I went to a primer plus system to use pumpgas a couple years ago to save money and make it easier to warm up, and then clear the motor of methanol at the end of the day . Its like a nitrous plate, with a fuel line and small pump plus a one gallon tank for the pumpgas.

Do you know your throttle blade opening?
% of leak at the barrel valve?
Idle check pressure?

 

[gregsdart]

It is a simple process to set a barrel valve and the throttle blades, to me anyway. I used a leakdown tester once, set it to the recommended starting point, and it was way too fat. Never used it again. Give it enough air to idle against the converter, yet lean enough to stumble if you crack the throttle quickly. Fatten it up till it doesn't hesitate, and you are spot on.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

It is a simple process to set a barrel valve and the throttle blades, to me anyway. I used a leakdown tester once, set it to the recommended starting point, and it was way too fat. Never used it again. Give it enough air to idle against the converter, yet lean enough to stumble if you crack the throttle quickly. Fatten it up till it doesn't hesitate, and you are spot on.

Off the top of your head do you remember what the baseline leak was?

Also I forgot if you run toilets or a hat. I’m 99.999% sure you don’t have stacks.

 

[gregsdart]

Baseline if i recall the seller said 25%? Not sure, 26 years ago. I went with a Terminator four throat, had been running a dominater carb, stripped of boosters, etc. my converter is a 9.5, flashes to 6400 but is tight enough to need an 1800 rpm in neutral, and the converter pulls it down to 1400. Any less idle and i risk it hesitating or stalling while trying to stage. Cam is pretty radical. Tight lash 284/296/114.

 

[gregsdart]

One last comment, i read of using balance tubes to each cylinder runner below the throttle blades to balance airflow to all cylinders on stack injection . Sounded like a good idea.

 

[HuntedDuckV351]