Lifter Failure

[TT5.9mag]

Should I just run my new Engle Solid flat tappet cam and 25 to 30 year old Competition Cams lifters. Or have them resurfaced?
I also have 2 new-old Hydraulic Flat Cams and 25 to 30 years or so old lifters.
Guess I am asking trust old stuff or not.

The old stuff is generally better than the new stuff. But I’d still have em refaced as there is zero downside except cost. Then you’ll know for certain they’re right. And you know @NC Engine Builder will do it correctly.

 

[NC Engine Builder]

Should I just run my new Engle Solid flat tappet cam and 25 to 30 year old Competition Cams lifters. Or have them resurfaced?
I also have 2 new-old Hydraulic Flat Cams and 25 to 30 years or so old lifters.
Guess I am asking trust old stuff or not.

I reface EVERY lifter I install, whether new out of the box or 40+ years old

 

[Killer6]

that's a bit unfair in as much as the chinese can machine parts as accurately as anywhere in the world. the issue arises when the customer wants to pay them $20 for a £50 part, so they supply said customer with a $20 part. it's not hard to work out where the bad reputation comes from with stuff like that happening all the time. they will make a part to a price or they will make a part to a quality, the 2 are rarely the same thing.
neil.

It's not unfair, & I say the same thing about sh*t quality from corner-cutting, lazy **** peddling American mfrs.
It's not selling $100 quality lifters instead of $200 ones, those F'd-up lifters are not only worth $-0-,....they COST a new cam and an entire F-'ing teardown,.....ohh,...it's fair 100%

 

[Mtrhead]

Agree!!!

 

[Dartswinger70]

I'm glad someone figured this out 5 years ago the claim on the "interwebz" was it was lack of zinc in the oil

 

[furrystump]

Lifter turning or not, he had to have had his high pressure double valve springs in there at first break in to totally destroy that lifter like that.

View attachment 1716442890

Being the new camshaft lobes outter edges are so sharp, they can actually cut you when working with them.

Eliminating any unforeseen problems, I take and sand back those sharp lobe edges with 240 grit emery cloth by hand prior to final cleanup and install of the new camshaft. Fussy and it takes time, but feel it's worth the effort.

If things happen to go bad, they are not going to chew like pictured above. Putting a lot less metal particles into a fresh engine.

Here is a well used stock 1974 318 cam with 100,000 miles on it and the lobes are starting to go flat. (probably from poor oil changes)

View attachment 1716442895

Lifters only showing slight cupping, but yes they are worn but not destroyed.

Running on stock single 318 valve springs by the way, and the lower lift original stock cam.


☆☆☆☆☆

At least you repurposed it as a cam bearing fitting tool!

 

[Bobzilla]

This thread made me go searching again for a thread done by IQ52. They tried a lube system fabricated for the flat tappet cam and lifters that is quite interesting. Not thinking it would help poor camshaft or lifter machining, but wondering if it would help in a daily driver low RPM scenario.
Cody's 440....RRR is off the hook.

I think I remember he posted in another thread that they actually measured unwanted lifter vertical movement that was caused by the edges of the camshaft lobes having "burrs" on them, like the wheel used on the camshaft grinder to shape the lobe was narrower than the lobe casting, so it did not grind the edges completely. I think they spent time deburring that camshaft. This is the one thing that has really been on my mind for camshaft failures, other than lifter face surface. Imagine how quickly that burr would kill a lifter. I look occasionally and still have not found that thread again.

Editing to add: I finally found it. This build thread had the comments about the camshaft in post 111. I mixed up the details because in this case he measured and said it was good to go. But in post 112 LowDeck451 said he had noticed a lifter bump up from those types of burrs. Really good build thread to read for all kinds of tech tips too.
400/450 stroker....Cheap parts, lotta work.

 

[DC 340]

I reface EVERY lifter I install, whether new out of the box or 40+ years old

I am curious on this. Are Mopar lifters deeper than surfaced hardened to allow refacing without risk?

 

[NC Engine Builder]

I am curious on this. Are Mopar lifters deeper than surfaced hardened to allow refacing without risk?

None of the lifters I have ground seem to have been surface hardened. The exception was a set of new old stock lifters for a flathead six. There were so hard I almost couldn't grind them

 

[PRH]

How hard can they be…….. a camshaft ate this one up

 

[marksmopar1]

One more step I take to help but never a sure thing is.. I check each lifter with a straight edge to ensure that are not flat. A lifter must have a higher center machined in or they will not spin. You will wipe a cam if lifters are flat regardless if all break in procedures are followed. I am surprised at how many I find that are flat right out of the box. Junk! Never trust new parts .. check everything.

 

[scudzuki]

I just don't trust modern flat tappet cams and lifters. Converting my 82 Ford 302 to hudraulic roller this week. Roller cam lobes have more aggressive lift profiles so you get better flow with the same duration vs a flat tappet lobe profile, a bonus. I imagine I'll rebuild the 340 in my Swinger eventually and I'll spend the money for Morel link bar lifters, if only for the peace of mind. 40 years ago when I started doing this stuff, a properly broken in flat tappet cam and lifters lasted forever. It's gotta be the steel they're using. It's a damn shame.

 

[MILO]

New vehicles are having the same problems soft metal lifters and ruining the cam and send metal particles through out the engines the mopar 3.6 is noted for this in jeeps the wrangler people are not happy about this too

 

[harvenator]

Well after installing my Comp.477 lift Hyd cam and lifter set and after proper assembly and break in period following Comp Cams instructions to a Tee I had a lifter fail. During the initial break in period with the idle at 2500 for 30 minutes the engine sounded great. Shut down for an hr and restarted and let it idle at around 1500 for 5 minutes and still sounded great. The next day running down the road and after about 10 miles started hearing lifter noise. By the time I got back home 20 miles later it was really rattling. The pic is what the lifter looked like when I pulled it out. It looks like the lifter was not rotating in the bore hole in which when installing and checking the movement we did rotate it slightly just to make sure it was free moving. So wondering why it did not rotate completely.View attachment 1716442574

I started using STP as an assembly lube back.in 65. I've used it on Harleys, Chevy and my 65 273 when I built it. Never a problem.

 

[scooby67]

Well after installing my Comp.477 lift Hyd cam and lifter set and after proper assembly and break in period following Comp Cams instructions to a Tee I had a lifter fail. During the initial break in period with the idle at 2500 for 30 minutes the engine sounded great. Shut down for an hr and restarted and let it idle at around 1500 for 5 minutes and still sounded great. The next day running down the road and after about 10 miles started hearing lifter noise. By the time I got back home 20 miles later it was really rattling. The pic is what the lifter looked like when I pulled it out. It looks like the lifter was not rotating in the bore hole in which when installing and checking the movement we did rotate it slightly just to make sure it was free moving. So wondering why it did not rotate completely.View attachment 1716442574

I had a similar issue when I installed a new cam in my 340. I got a set of Howard‘s lifters, and was installing them in the bores I noticed one of them would not go in and was getting caught up. I tried another bore. Same issue. Upon close inspection, there was a small burr at the bottom edge of the lifter. I filed it off and gave it a polish. I then reinstalled and checked it a few times. All I can say is, the fit and finish of new parts is lousy these days.