Long time coming, but I'm building a little bracket car

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hemichuck

hemichuck

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Louisville Kentucky
I've been messing with Mopars for about 40 years now and have had a multitude of performance cars over that time(from 2.2's to Hemi's) but for the last few years I have been mostly buying and selling parts. I found a 1968 Barracuda sitting in a guys yard, been sitting there for years, and I finally saw him outside one day and stopped in. The car is not a show piece and has been sitting in the dirt for many years but I ended up buying it for $400 and decided to build myself a little bracket car. I am basically trying to use up all the stuff I've had laying around for years and I want to build an old school(because I'm old and so are a lot of my parts) 70's style car. Things I already have are several motors, 340's/360's and a couple of 4 inch stroke motors. I have several sets of roller rockers, a bunch of cams (solid and hydraulics) A new set of Edelbrock heads, a MP tach drive race distributor, several intakes (strip dominator, MP-M1, Offy Port O Sonic and a Edelbrock TR5 tunnel ram), several carbs, Holley 750 and 850 DP and a set of 500cfm Eddies for the tunnel ram. I have a 727 we just rebuilt with a turbo action manual valve body, deep pan and a T/A cable shifter. I have an 8 3/4 spool and several cases (no gear yet) I know there are a million different combos and I am just trying to figure out which would be my best bet. I don't want a world beater, just something to satisfy my need for speed. Does anybody think that with the stuff I have I could build a car that runs low 7's or maybe even high 6's in the 1/8'th mile?
 
probably. are you gonna run race gas or pump gas. if you go race gas and 12:1 comp you will be needing a roll cage or they will throw you off the track lol. will make a 10 second car. with pump gas you can make a nice high 11 or 12 second car and not need a cage.
 
Sounds like a fun project. Hopefully somewhere down the road, i'll be able to start a thread like this myself. Although i wont have anywhere near the inventory you do. :mrgreen:

Depending on the final weight, i'm thinking a ballpark figure of 500hp to get where you want to go. I have to think one of your 4" arm engines would be best since you wont have to spin it as high and would be more durable in the long run.
 
hemichuck said:
I've been messing with Mopars for about 40 years now and have had a multitude of performance cars over that time(from 2.2's to Hemi's) but for the last few years I have been mostly buying and selling parts. I found a 1968 Barracuda sitting in a guys yard, been sitting there for years, and I finally saw him outside one day and stopped in. The car is not a show piece and has been sitting in the dirt for many years but I ended up buying it for $400 and decided to build myself a little bracket car. I am basically trying to use up all the stuff I've had laying around for years and I want to build an old school(because I'm old and so are a lot of my parts) 70's style car. Things I already have are several motors, 340's/360's and a couple of 4 inch stroke motors. I have several sets of roller rockers, a bunch of cams (solid and hydraulics) A new set of Edelbrock heads, a MP tach drive race distributor, several intakes (strip dominator, MP-M1, Offy Port O Sonic and a Edelbrock TR5 tunnel ram), several carbs, Holley 750 and 850 DP and a set of 500cfm Eddies for the tunnel ram. I have a 727 we just rebuilt with a turbo action manual valve body, deep pan and a T/A cable shifter. I have an 8 3/4 spool and several cases (no gear yet) I know there are a million different combos and I am just trying to figure out which would be my best bet. I don't want a world beater, just something to satisfy my need for speed. Does anybody think that with the stuff I have I could build a car that runs low 7's or maybe even high 6's in the 1/8'th mile?
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7.0 in the 1/8 calculates to a low 11 second car, like 11.0. In a 3100lb car you need around 415 RWHP to get there. Factoring in 15-20% driveline loss you probably need a 500 hp small block which is pretty stout. Stroker with a tunnel ram? Maybe, I'm not sure. From what you list in your parts stash, might be tough. You're going to need some really good cylinder heads and a pretty big solid or roller cam. Probably be easier to reach your goal with a big block.

That ET is also figuring everything is optimal - minimal converter slippage, correct tire diameter and gear ratio and you have your shift points ironed out. You're in KY, elevation is over 500 ft and it's humid out there. Might be tough to tune a small block on those mid summer days.

You didn't mention anything about chassis. If it's a race-only deal, start gutting the car and getting some fiberglass parts. Look into a Caltrac suspension, guys are in the 8s (1/4) with those. Most successful NHRA leaf spring stockers run Caltracs.

Small blocks need gears like 4.30-4.56 etc., especially 1/8 mile. Won't spend too much time in high gear so you need to get there quick. A trans brake would probably be good too. Consider a 904 also which may be a better match for a small block A body. A low gear set will help with torque multiplication. There is less rotating mass in a 904 which makes it less dangerous too.

Go to Wallace Racing and play around with their calculators, should give you a clearer idea of what you need to build into the car to achieve your goal.

IMO weight, the correct gear, chassis set up, matched converter and a realistic idea of what your real wheel horsepower is (factoring in 15-20% driveline loss) are what you are looking for.
 
Wow! Bro! Paragraphs please. It's a hard read without them. (I-phone makes it a bit smaller too, LOL!) it took a while to read but it sure looks like fun!
I have plenty of intakes and carbs to swap around on my engines. Play with them and enjoy the time out there.

Go for it! Woo-Hoo!
 
Just to add a few more things - I think the pump gas or race gas question is pertinent here. Higher compression will make it easier to attain your goal. Pump gas is always a compromise. Run the highest C.R. your combo will allow if race gas is what you're using.

500 hp from 408 cubic inches is 1.2-1.3 hp/cubic inch. Tough to get there with a pump gas compression ratio. Again, good cylinder heads ($$$).

What is your budget like? Think you can build a low 11 second car for cheap? Not likely. $400 for the car is a pretty good start but that's gonna add up real quick. Makes my head hurt to think about how much money I spend on peripheral stuff like hoses and fittings, brakes, fuel system stuff, tires, etc. :mrgreen:
 
I'm retired and my budget is pretty much only limited by the fact I like to build stuff cheap. The car is going to be gutted so like you said I can lose weight with some fiberglass. I'm really only doing this to clean out the garage, tired of all these things sitting around. I like to race but have no interest in beating the world so if it runs high 7's in the eighth I would be happy. I would like to stick with SS springs and a pinion snubber and some subframe connectors. I really don't want to get into a caged car even though I might later. Really just want to entertain myself. I used to drag race (and street race) and I really enjoy it. I only live about 8 miles from Ohio Valley Raceway. I do a lot of swap meets and thought it might be fun to have a car to race while I'm there.
The 408 short block I have built already was built on a 5.9 magnum block. Forged crank, eagle rods, probe flat top pistons, zero decked and neutral balanced. Only problem is with Magnum style aluminum heads it will still be close to 12.5 to one comp. so I guess pump gas would be a no-no. How much comp. can you run with E85? I might just pull the reciprocating assembly and put it in the 1971 360 block I have. I would probably be better off running pump gas but racing gas is not out of question.
Who makes the best aluminum Magnum style heads? With some of the cams I already have and the 1.6 rocker ratio on the magnums I could get into the .550-.600 range pretty easy. With 12.5 comp and a M1 single plane and an 850 holley might just be the ticket. If I could pull 450 hp I would be pretty happy with that.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention, big blocks pretty much out of the question. I sold most of my BB and Hemi stuff so I'm left with a crapload of SB parts. Buying more stuff would defeat my purpose of cleaning out the garage!
 
since the car is gutted you better build a cage lol. 11.49 makes a cage required. they have kits where you weld them yourself the price isnt to bad.

it's a real pita to put a cage in after lol
 
hemichuck said:
With 12.5 comp and a M1 single plane and an 850 holley might just be the ticket. If I could pull 450 hp I would be pretty happy with that.
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I don't think that would be too much of a problem with 12.5:1.

Look into the RHS Magnums or the EQ heads. RHS claims 262 CFM without any prep but that's advertising only. They're iron which may not suit your needs. Hughes or IMM will do those up for you for relatively little coin - they're 1.92 valves but cut for 2.02 and you're there. Sell some of your other stuff to recoup.

Look up LxGuy on here. He runs a 'junkyard' magnum combo in a '71 Dart street car that goes in the 11s.
 
Your goal of 6,s can be reached on pump gas.Use the 408 bottomend,use the Eddy heads(mild porting),4500-5000 stall.Your gear and tire size choices will vary your times.For 1/8 only 4.56-4.88,1/4 4.10-4.30 on a 30 inch tire.Yes you will need a cage to race.No cage if running in the 7,s.
 
Cage isn't a real problem, 2 of my good friends build race cars for a living and I have a Miller 35 mig welder so even welding it myself would be OK. Do you have to have a cage certified if your running those times? Hey pettybluedart, do you race at Grand Bend? I have a buddy named Brighton who races there.
 
IMG_18631.jpg
Here
IMG_18671.jpg

heres a couple of photos of the junk laying around my shop
 
Hey chuck if you need any chrome for that car let me know I may have it and we may do some trading . Red
 
You have very good stuff. Assemble this and go to the track kick some a****. I prefer spend my time seeking for a optimal tuning than confused with the parts avaliable parts in my garage. I'm sure that you are able to achieve your goals
 
hemichuck said:
Cage isn't a real problem, 2 of my good friends build race cars for a living and I have a Miller 35 mig welder so even welding it myself would be OK. Do you have to have a cage certified if your running those times? Hey pettybluedart, do you race at Grand Bend? I have a buddy named Brighton who races there.
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Yes I race at..
Grand Bend
St.Thomas
Cayuga
Snannonville
This year I beleive there is 2 new tracks opening.One near Ottawa and one near North Bay.Yet to hear about opening dates though.What type of car does your friend race?

Sorry for Hi-jacking
 
hemichuck said:
Cage isn't a real problem, 2 of my good friends build race cars for a living and I have a Miller 35 mig welder so even welding it myself would be OK. Do you have to have a cage certified if your running those times? Hey pettybluedart, do you race at Grand Bend? I have a buddy named Brighton who races there.
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certified cage required if you run 9.99 or 135 mph...

roll bar required if you run 11.49 and faster....roll bar is good down to 9.99 as above if you have stock firewall and floor pan..not including wheel tubs...
 
Sounds good, I will go ahead and cage it. I don't see it ever making a 9.99 run so a basic cage should suffice. I am going shopping to find some Magnum style heads because I have 2 sets of roller rockers for those and that short block is already assembled. Only thing I will be lacking will be some pushrods. Anybody know what length pushrods you use with a magnum engine and an LA style cam? I guess they would be different for hydraulics or solids.
 
pettybluedart, seems like I jacked my own thread. I was talking to my Canadian buddies at the Indy meet and they have been trying to get me to come to Moparfest for a while so I hatched a plan to take my Sons Viper and go to Chryslers at Carlile and when we leave there go to Detroit for the Woodward dream cruise (The Mancini guys said all the locals cruise during the weeknights)and then leave there and go to Moparfest. I'm going to make a regular mancation out of it. If I can pull it off without getting divorced! So if you see a couple of tired looking hillbillys cruising around in a 2003 Viper red with silver stripes you will know we made it.
 
hemichuck said:
Sounds good, I will go ahead and cage it. I don't see it ever making a 9.99 run so a basic cage should suffice. I am going shopping to find some Magnum style heads because I have 2 sets of roller rockers for those and that short block is already assembled. Only thing I will be lacking will be some pushrods. Anybody know what length pushrods you use with a magnum engine and an LA style cam? I guess they would be different for hydraulics or solids.
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Magnum and LA cams are different because of the fuel pump arrangement/cam snout thing.

Get a checking pushrod first to verify your length then order.

Hughes should have everything you need including several flavors of heads.
 
hemichuck said:
pettybluedart, seems like I jacked my own thread. I was talking to my Canadian buddies at the Indy meet and they have been trying to get me to come to Moparfest for a while so I hatched a plan to take my Sons Viper and go to Chryslers at Carlile and when we leave there go to Detroit for the Woodward dream cruise (The Mancini guys said all the locals cruise during the weeknights)and then leave there and go to Moparfest. I'm going to make a regular mancation out of it. If I can pull it off without getting divorced! So if you see a couple of tired looking hillbillys cruising around in a 2003 Viper red with silver stripes you will know we made it.
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Hope to see you make the trip up to Moparfest.I,ll look for the ZZTop beards a flowin in the red Viper with silver stripes.LOL:glasses7:
 
I know about the difference in the cam snouts but its not an issue because I will be using the early timing cover. I'll call Hughs and see what they can help me out with. Thanks to everybody for their suggestions and help.
 
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