low/no charging

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drawz

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Hello!

I'll try to explain my problem the best I can for you guys, and hoping someone can help.

When It comes to diagnosing electrical problems, I spend more time scratching my head than actully doing some work.. I have no idea where to begin..

My 67 Dodge Dart doesn't charge propelly. Or I think that is the problem... I've tryed measuring the battery when the car is running. It measures 10.2V. Directly on the alternator It measures 0.08V. I've also tryed with a testing light between the negative pole and negative wire, the light lights up. Then unwired the alternator, and the light still lights up.. That indicates the alternator is OK, right?

I have a 70ah battery. I tryed to switch it out with another big *** 70ah battery that puts out power like 2 batterys (measures 25V while car is off) problem stays the same, so I dont think it is my battery. The car still doesn't charge more than around 10v with that battery.

I asked a mechanic for some help. He said I should disconnect the negative wire on the battery again and put the testing light between the pole and wire, then pull one fuse at the time, and check when the light doesn't light up anymore to find witch circuit Is bad. (Not really sure I understood him correctly) This I haven't done yet, because I think that would be a real pain to find. The fuse box on my car is aftermarked, and have no idea witch fuse is for what circuit.

Sorry for my bad english, hope you understand.
 
I think your mechanic sent you down a wrong road. That procedure is for a load on the car ---such as maybe a stuck trunk lamp--that is drawing an unwanted load when car is not running/ parked

First thing.......determine what you have for a charging system, that is, do you have the original system?

Your original "type" alternator should only have two wires........the big battery output stud, and the smaller "push on" field wire.

You MAY have more than one problem...........You said

"Directly on the alternator It measures 0.08V"

If you are talking about from the output stud to ground, there is no continuity from there to the battery. That output stud feeds IN through the bulkhead connector, TO AND THROUGH the ammeter, and along the way branches off to feed the fuse panel and ignition switch..

AFTER going through the AMMETER, it comes back out the bulkhead connector (now red) and goes through the fuse link, and attaches to the STARTER RELAY, the large battery stud

A quick check is to remove the field wire, and use a clip lead to jumper from that terminal to the battery. This should cause "full output" from the alternator at a fast idle.

If not, recheck battery voltage, and the voltage on the alternator output stud.

If, under the above conditions,
If the alternator stud is quite high, above 16V, and the battery is still low, below 13.5, you have a wiring problem from the alternator, through the bulkhead, and back to the battery

If the alternator and battery are still quite low, below 13.5, the alternator is not charging

If the alternator and battery are above 13.5, it should be charging, and should indicate on the ammeter, if it is still functional.

If this last is the case, you either have a wiring problem in the regulator / field circuit, or the regulator.

To check this out, hook the field wire back up.

Disconnect the regulator and jumper across the two wires. This should cause a "full output" condition as the first part of the test.

If doing so causes the system to charge,

First remove and scrape the regulator mount clean, remount and be sure regulator is grounded,

If the above does not cause system to operate, replace the regulator.
 
If you replace the alternator, try to get one from a mid '70's car, known as a "squareback"

Your original should look something like the right hand side, which you do NOT want, unless you want "restored correctly" look. The later "square back" is a better alternator

mopp_0112_05_z+alternator_and_regulators+replacement_alternator.jpg


You can either do one of two things with the later alternator (two field connections)

Either ground one field and hook up your original regulator.......

Or add one more wire and wire up a 70/ later regulator
 
I'm not 100% sure witch alternator I 've got. I belive It is something the last owner bought from ebay. All I know is that it is not original. Chromed nice looking thing. It might be a "squareback".. I'm not able to confirm that now, but I'll check tomorrow. But It sure looks like the one on the left :)

When you say "field wire" is that the negative wire?
 
No. You may have some aftermarket item, and may not even have the factory regulator. A photo would go a long way.

The field wire...early style on right only has one. It has a total of two wires. The big wire hooking to the nut/ stud is the output

The "push on" small wire is the field

The newer alternator on the left has TWO field wires. (Two "push on" connectors). You can use the new style in place of the old style by grounding either field and hooking your existing green field wire up to the remaining field terminal.
 
Thank for the help man. I did some more measureing to day. And the problem is the alternator. I also took the car to mechanic (Not the same as last time) and he also says the alternator is the problem, It doesen't charge. So I need a new alternator.. Or could it be just the voltage regulator? Is there a way to test it? what alternator do you guys suggest I get? amps? My car has a 318 V8 small block.
 
I had a prob. like that on my 72 Dart, It was just barley charging, I first was thinking it was the alternator, had advance auto parts check it for free, it was good, so I just got a new voltage regulator & that's what was wrong.
 
drawz said:
Thank for the help man. I did some more measureing to day. And the problem is the alternator. I also took the car to mechanic (Not the same as last time) and he also says the alternator is the problem, It doesen't charge. So I need a new alternator.. Or could it be just the voltage regulator? Is there a way to test it? what alternator do you guys suggest I get? amps? My car has a 318 V8 small block.
Click to expand...

So, I guess you didn't take the time to read anything I posted?

67Dart273 said:
If you replace the alternator, try to get one from a mid '70's car, known as a "squareback"
Click to expand...
 
Re-read 67Dart273's first response. He gives you the instructions on how to check your voltage regulator. - By the way, nice troubleshooting guide.
 
67Dart273 said:
So, I guess you didn't take the time to read anything I posted?
Click to expand...

I read It. and thanks alot for nice guide. In witch type i mean how many amps. Did the test on the voltage regulator right after I posted that last post. Don't know why I asked about it, haha.
 
These Mopar alternators are very simple to trouble-shoot. You have full access to the interface between the Vreg and the field. You can measure what the Vreg applies to the field, and can even apply your own voltage across the field (w/ jumpers from battery). You even have an ammeter in the dash to measure the output current (if that still works). There are many, many posts here giving detailed testing instructions and a multimeter is free at Harbor Freight. If you don't understand basic electricity, there is youtube and wikipedia. If anybody won't follow thru, take your car to an auto electric shop and quietly pay whatever.
 
drawz said:
I read It. and thanks alot for nice guide. In witch type i mean how many amps. Did the test on the voltage regulator right after I posted that last post. Don't know why I asked about it, haha.
Click to expand...

OK, as long as the alternator LOOKS like the one in the photo, it will work. These vary from 35? or so amps to 60? or so amps plus or minus a bit.

If you don't have a lot of extra "stuff," fans, stereo, etc, a 45--55A should be fine.
 
Ok, new 60A alternator ordered :) But one more question for you. Just for fun I'm trying to open the old one. I have unskewed the 3 skrews and pulled the pulley off. But I can't separate the two halfes. It feels loose, but It seems like something is holding It back.. Is the two halfes like the pulley? (push to fit) or is there something else I have to remove? I don't want to break anything in case I can repair this alternator. This is a squareback.

EDIT; got the two pices separated. Just needed some muscle ;D

Here's some pics of the brushes etc. What to you guys think, does this look like the cause of it not working? Should I try order a repair kit?

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I'm about done, here

I've tried to help you, and you seem to not have read one word

That appears to be an aftermarket "powermaster" which means it is NOT using a factory regulator

You can not tell what is wrong by looking. You have to actually run some tests

That is a later squareback design, it is "isolated field," INCORRECTLY called "dual field" by many.

Do NOT attempt to re-assemble that thing without removing the "side" brush, or both of them

Remove all the regulator crap on the rear. Ground one field connection. Hook a clip lead to the other field connection, and clip the other end to the starter relay battery stud...... and see if it charges

This is going to be your choice. You can either sit up and pay attention...........

or you can go find a service manual and dig into that and learn on your own.

or you can just take the car to a mechanic and get out your check book.
 
Your alternator looks OK from the photos. You should have posted those in post #1. Instead, people spent a lot of time speculating, assuming you had a factory Mopar alternator, which you do not. You can make it factory (rip off Vreg) and use the tips posted, or research how your PowerMaster should be wired.
 
I am reading. Problem is understanding.. Could some of you post a pic of the wiring? That would really help understanding your guide. I don't have the factory voltage regulator, only the stuff mounted on the back of my alternator.
 
I am going out on a limb here. Near the bottom of the top alternator picture I see exposed field windings on the rotor. It looks like the wire enamel insulation has been abraded, or burned. It may have happened if a tool was used there in disassembly, or a hot spot due to a winding short. Since I am looking at a picture, I cannot be sure. Testing turn short is often inconclusive, one turn shorted is very bad, but cannot be discerned from the large number of other turns. Motor shops have a growler for such tests, it energizes the magnetic field of the rotor plates, if a winding turn short exists it will vibrate and make a growl. I also see some grooves in the flat brush plate, and signs of heating. For perhaps a low mile alternator, guessing from other cleanliness, it seems excessive. That often happens with a field short. I also think the rotor looks recyled, painted, and not new in comparison to the other parts.

I think at this point, your problem cannot be solved on the internet.
 
drawz said:
I am reading. Problem is understanding.. Could some of you post a pic of the wiring? That would really help understanding your guide. I don't have the factory voltage regulator, only the stuff mounted on the back of my alternator.
Click to expand...

WE don't need to post photos of the wiring because WE don't know what YOU have. I already told you............what you posted APPEARS to be a PowerMaster or other aftermarket alternator with regulator mounted on the rear of the alternator.

And, I already told you how to test it.

LOOK at the two brushes. LOOK at them. SEE what is connected. DISCONNECT whatever it is. Now you have nothing at all hooked to the two brushes

Assemble back into the car.

GROUND one of the two brushes Does not matter which

Hook a clip lead to the remaining brush. Hook the other end of the clip lead to battery............the big stud on the starter relay This should cause the alternator to go to "full output" Some people call this "full fielding" meaning you are applying "full" field current from the battery

This should cause maximum output as RPM goes up. If not you have a bad alternator

If it charges, you have a bad regulator.
 
I've grounded one of the brushes to the alternator housing. But I can't fint the starter relay... Where is this mounted? Could It be I don't have one?
 
Yes, the car has been rewired. I did google the VR before I went out looking. But can't find. where is it usally mounted? maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.

Here's some pic's. Don't know if they helps.
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I would guess someone has added the functionality of a starter relay either in a different type relay, possibly under the dash, or maybe even moved the original relay under the dash. If you are not familiar with the present wiring, you have a long hard road, because anything "we" would say is just a guess. You need to try and backtrack with the earlier owner

You won't have a factory VR, either. Your somewhat poor photo earlier---and I already tried to get through to you on this---is that you have an AFTERMARKET or similar Powermaster alternator.........the VR appears to be mounted right on the rear of the alternator. This is NOT a factory VR. These are a third party or aftermarket device which "acts like" a "one wire" alternator.

The photo below is a crop of what you posted earlier. I am certain there was a "box" mounted on your alternator that the red and green wiring went to?
 

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Yes, there was a box on the back of the alternator (I removed this like you said). I'll look under the dash tomorrow for the VR. But in case I still don't find anything, is there any other way I can wire the last brush to perform the test?
 
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