Magnum cooling

[Evan Dutch]

I’ve got an update:


Took the car out to the local cruise in tonight. I made some adjustments to the portion of the timing table where the car cruises at:

Headed to the cruise in:

55mph
2500rpm
29 degrees of timing

Coolant temp reached 200 degrees and stayed within a few degrees of that.

Brought my laptop with me so I made a few more adjustments before I headed home. Results as follows:


55mph
2500rpm
36 degrees of timing

Coolant temp reached 172 degrees and stayed around there.

Cruising at 55mph. 2500rpm and -5psi had it at almost 36 degrees. Car didn’t get over 172 coolant temp while constantly cruising. Now when I stopped and such yeah it would warm up.

Cruises with noticeably less effort.

What do you guys think? Should I give it more timing?

 

[Valman]

Yes! I know your engine has a S/C, but an NA engine would have 40 degrees plus at those cruising conditions.
Inch up slowly..

 

[MopaR&D]

I’ve got an update:


Took the car out to the local cruise in tonight. I made some adjustments to the portion of the timing table where the car cruises at:

Headed to the cruise in:

55mph
2500rpm
29 degrees of timing

Coolant temp reached 200 degrees and stayed within a few degrees of that.

Brought my laptop with me so I made a few more adjustments before I headed home. Results as follows:


55mph
2500rpm
36 degrees of timing

Coolant temp reached 172 degrees and stayed around there.

Cruising at 55mph. 2500rpm and -5psi had it at almost 36 degrees. Car didn’t get over 172 coolant temp while constantly cruising. Now when I stopped and such yeah it would warm up.

Cruises with noticeably less effort.

What do you guys think? Should I give it more timing?

Now you're on the right track. Yeah give it more, keep going until you get a light surge at cruise or pinging going up a hill then back it off a couple degrees. Don't worry you won't blow it up if it pings a tad under light load. I'd be surprised if it doesn't end up with 45+ degrees advance at cruise.

Also I don't remember what you said initial timing was but if it's below about 14 then give it some more at idle, that'll also help keep it cool when sitting at lights or in traffic.

 

[MopaR&D]

Example, my Buick has a 3800 V6 with a factory supercharger. I modified the timing tables so it has close to 40° at cruise but once the boost comes in it drops down significantly, WOT it's only about 17°. Picked up a noticeable amount of power and MPG compared to stock and it still doesn't get much into knock retard (has knock sensors that retard timing when pinging is sensed). Being a smaller-bore engine than a 5.9L V8 it doesn't need as much advance to get a complete burn.

 

[Evan Dutch]

Now you're on the right track. Yeah give it more, keep going until you get a light surge at cruise or pinging going up a hill then back it off a couple degrees. Don't worry you won't blow it up if it pings a tad under light load. I'd be surprised if it doesn't end up with 45+ degrees advance at cruise.

Also I don't remember what you said initial timing was but if it's below about 14 then give it some more at idle, that'll also help keep it cool when sitting at lights or in traffic.

My idle timing is 20 degrees

 

[Bobzilla]

I’ve got an update:


Took the car out to the local cruise in tonight. I made some adjustments to the portion of the timing table where the car cruises at:

Headed to the cruise in:

55mph
2500rpm
29 degrees of timing

Coolant temp reached 200 degrees and stayed within a few degrees of that.

Brought my laptop with me so I made a few more adjustments before I headed home. Results as follows:


55mph
2500rpm
36 degrees of timing

Coolant temp reached 172 degrees and stayed around there.

Cruising at 55mph. 2500rpm and -5psi had it at almost 36 degrees. Car didn’t get over 172 coolant temp while constantly cruising. Now when I stopped and such yeah it would warm up.

Cruises with noticeably less effort.

What do you guys think? Should I give it more timing?

I finally monitored ignition timing and rpm with a scan tool on my truck while driving. This is a completely stock 1999 Ram 1500 4x4 with 5.9 Magnum engine. I had overdrive turned off so the rpm and speed was closer to yours.

On very normal driving light acceleration from a stop it was varying a little between 25-30 degrees. From 40 mph at 1600 rpm through 50 mph at 1950 rpm it was pretty consistent at about 40 degrees. At 55 mph and 2150 rpm it was about 38 degrees. With cruise set on 55 mph going up a small/moderate hill it was around 24-30 degrees.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Keep adding timing 2 degrees at a time without changing the load, keep RPM and speed as well as throttle position the same if you can. You will get to a point where the engine will surge. That’s where you stop and pull a couple degrees. Don’t be surprised to see 45-50 degrees.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Put a slant 6 in it.

 

[Evan Dutch]

I finally monitored ignition timing and rpm with a scan tool on my truck while driving. This is a completely stock 1999 Ram 1500 4x4 with 5.9 Magnum engine. I had overdrive turned off so the rpm and speed was closer to yours.

On very normal driving light acceleration from a stop it was varying a little between 25-30 degrees. From 40 mph at 1600 rpm through 50 mph at 1950 rpm it was pretty consistent at about 40 degrees. At 55 mph and 2150 rpm it was about 38 degrees. With cruise set on 55 mph going up a small/moderate hill it was around 24-30 degrees.

Very close to what I’ve got it set to now

 

[Evan Dutch]

Put a slant 6 in it.

This would solve a lot of my issues

 

[Evan Dutch]

Keep adding timing 2 degrees at a time without changing the load, keep RPM and speed as well as throttle position the same if you can. You will get to a point where the engine will surge. That’s where you stop and pull a couple degrees. Don’t be surprised to see 45-50 degrees.

I played around with it a bit more. I adjusted the table to advance the timing starting around 1500rpm (think lower speed cruising like around town) while under minimal load.

Highway cruising is now bumped up to about 40-42 degrees while intake pressure is -6.0psi.

The car has responded very well in regards to the effort it seems to be exerting while reaching cruising rpm and maintaining cruise speed.

However, it’s not enough to keep the coolant temps down. And I believe the issue is not timing alone.

Driving the car home from rockingham drag way over the weekend (very hot day 88 degrees) the car reached 200 degrees on the coolant temp.

IAT climbed to 165 and would not drop. Babied the car home while ensuring load was as light as possible, it never saw even remotely close to boost pressure.

I believe now that it is primarily the IAT that is driving the temperature up, as I have not driven it on a day that hot with the supercharger setup.

I need to reroute the blower intake to fresh air as well as fab up an intercooler solution.

ALSO, I scored a new intake manifold for a DEAL

 

[TT5.9mag]

need to reroute the blower intake to fresh air as well as fab up an intercooler solution

THAT ^^^ should be mandatory with a blower.

 

[Evan Dutch]

THAT ^^^ should be mandatory with a blower.

I feel the same, I put the car together over the winter when the ambient temperature was cold enough for me not to have to worry about it. I only put the car under stress for very short periods of time and only to get the tune dialed in. now that the temperature is heating up. I’m starting to think of ways I can fit in intercooler and reroute the air inlet.

 

[TT5.9mag]

10-15 or even 20 degrees of ambient temp should mean very little to an engines coolant temp. It should maintain thermostatic temp regardless of the exterior temperature, excluding the extremes of course. But when you feed it hot air, and it compresses hot air a nasty cycle starts and it’s hard to stop it. Chevrolet had a recall for some of their duramax 4500s due to this exact process.

 

[jbc426]

Great tuning info here. Do either of you guys foresee spraying methanol starting at around 5-6 psi boost or even lower?

I don't really have room for an air-to-air intercooler or ducting on my '68, unless I go with a chiller set-up. Those are pretty compact, and while I haven't run one on my stuff yet, they look pretty efficient. That is as long as you have A/C to begin with.

On a somewhat related note, the guys on Engine Masters ran their fuel through a small transmission cooler with a built in fan before it feeds into the EFI. They were seeing temperature drops in the 45 degree range.

 

[volaredon]

I played around with it a bit more. I adjusted the table to advance the timing starting around 1500rpm (think lower speed cruising like around town) while under minimal load.

Highway cruising is now bumped up to about 40-42 degrees while intake pressure is -6.0psi.

The car has responded very well in regards to the effort it seems to be exerting while reaching cruising rpm and maintaining cruise speed.

However, it’s not enough to keep the coolant temps down. And I believe the issue is not timing alone.

Driving the car home from rockingham drag way over the weekend (very hot day 88 degrees) the car reached 200 degrees on the coolant temp.

IAT climbed to 165 and would not drop. Babied the car home while ensuring load was as light as possible, it never saw even remotely close to boost pressure.

I believe now that it is primarily the IAT that is driving the temperature up, as I have not driven it on a day that hot with the supercharger setup.

I need to reroute the blower intake to fresh air as well as fab up an intercooler solution.

ALSO, I scored a new intake manifold for a DEAL

View attachment 1716390028

Nothing wrong with 200* run temp but that's about the max id like to see

 

[TT5.9mag]

Nothing wrong with 200* run temp but that's about the max id like to see

On anything with boost if I see more than 170 I’m shutting it down.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Great tuning info here. Do either of you guys foresee spraying methanol starting at around 5-6 psi boost or even lower?

I don't really have room for an air-to-air intercooler or ducting on my '68, unless I go with a chiller set-up. Those are pretty compact, and while I haven't run one on my stuff yet, they look pretty efficient. That is as long as you have A/C to begin with.

On a somewhat related note, the guys on Engine Masters ran their fuel through a small transmission cooler with a built in fan before it feeds into the EFI. They were seeing temperature drops in the 45 degree range.

Meth injection is ok, water/meth I won’t use at all. If you absolutely do not have room for any kind of intercooler than meth injection can work, but the problem is setting the tune up to make power with meth and then running the tank empty. Your safety margin goes right out the window. Fuel coolers worked well with carbureted stuff, I don’t remember seeing a big change on efi stuff.

 

[Bewy]

I used water injection on my 440 in the 1970s to stop detonation. It vworked well, water only.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I used water injection on my 440 in the 1970s to stop detonation. It vworked well, water only.

The military used it in airplanes as well. And water does work well cooling the chamber, but after that all it does is take up space that could be used for a fuel. Methanol has better cooling properties (latent heat of vaporization) and is a fuel. Why anyone still puts water in their combustion chamber is beyond me.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

The military used it in airplanes as well. And water does work well cooling the chamber, but after that all it does is take up space that could be used for a fuel. Methanol has better cooling properties (latent heat of vaporization) and is a fuel. Why anyone still puts water in their combustion chamber is beyond me.

It’s a sign they can’t build an engine correctly the first time and they can’t tune.

Resorting to water injection is a quick and dirty fix. The best way is to unscrew the build.

 

[TT5.9mag]

It’s a sign they can’t build an engine correctly the first time and they can’t tune.

Resorting to water injection is a quick and dirty fix. The best way is to unscrew the build.

Or they build it for real octane and then wanna put pump gas junk in it.

 

[Bobzilla]

I feel the same, I put the car together over the winter when the ambient temperature was cold enough for me not to have to worry about it. I only put the car under stress for very short periods of time and only to get the tune dialed in. now that the temperature is heating up. I’m starting to think of ways I can fit in intercooler and reroute the air inlet.

Any more progress or updates on this one?

 

[Evan Dutch]

Any more progress or updates on this one?

Messed around with the timing just a little bit. But, I’ve come to solidify my reasoning that it’s the intake air temperature which is causing the coolant temp to rise to high temps. As the engine runs and gets warmer and warmer the intake air charge does the same.

I picked up a Harley about a month ago that I’ve been working on, it’s just about done and when it’s finished, I’ll work on making an intercooler setup for the car.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Holy Harley boom tube Batman.