* Major Rant! *

-
slantsixdan said:
It's tempting to think so, and perhaps eventually poor Chinese quality will be the exception rather than the rule. You make a good point about free enterprise; it is interesting to see the large difference between Taiwanese stuff (much of which is now very good and all of which is getting better) and Chinese stuff (much of which is still utter garbage). What a difference a little freedom makes, eh! But there are some important factors you don't appear to be considering. The Japanese (and the Koreans and Taiwanese after them) started out building trash because that was all they were equipped to build, and that is all the world wanted to buy from them. Culturally, both the Japanese and the Koreans have a long history of valuing quality and durability. The Japanese got a big boost on that front after WWII, when American know-how (which was very good at the time) was poured in large quantity into Japan.

The Chinese, on the other hand, for many decades actively scorned such basic concepts as engineering and specialization, which they considered decadent and quaint Western affectations. Mao had a deep-seated loathing for engineers and other intellectuals, and so did everything he could to minimise their contribution to Chinese society. In the so-called Great Leap Forward, intellectuals were rounded up and shot, and Mao (who didn't know a thing about metallurgy) ordered farmers to quit farming and instead build small coal smelters on their land, melt down their farming implements and turn them into raw steel. He thought this would act as a springboard for China to have a sudden industrial revolution. What actually happened was a sudden lack of food because nobody was farming, a sudden lack of farm implements because they'd all been melted down, and a sudden glut of utterly useless metal goo that couldn't even remotely be called steel. Vast numbers of people starved to death. Think I'm exaggerating? Nope! I recently read a 1970 booklet from China entitled "China Tames Her Rivers". It is full of eye-poppingly extreme Communist propaganda, but every word of it was meant seriously, including these: "There were early attempts by traitors to hoodwink the people with such decadent Western notions as 'put technique first' and 'place specialists in charge of engineering'. These traitors were swiftly dealt with."

So, culturally, China not only has no history of valuing quality as we know it, but they actually have a strong history of violently devaluing it. They will emerge from this, but it's going to take awhile. Unfortunately, Western MBAs don't want to wait until China figures out how to participate in the 21st century, and many of us are shortsighted enough to aggravate the problem by shopping at Wal-Mart and Harbor Freight.
Click to expand...


This guy knows the score
.
 
ILLDuster74 said:
The problem is that the Craftsman jack I bought was made in China..and so is almost every one of thier handtools now.
Click to expand...

That is why guys like me will buy old stuff and throw in a couple of o-rings, replace the wheels, what ever.

I am alway on the look out for old American or German tools.

Yard sales, garage sales, estate sales.

If there ain't none near you there is eBay.

I would rather have a used quality tool, than a new chinese tool.
.
 
ILLDuster74 said:
The problem is that the Craftsman jack I bought was made in China..and so is almost every one of thier handtools now.
Click to expand...

All the store brands have gone there. Kobalt, craftsman,( i think husky too) and the rest just piss me off. If someone can find a good brand i can walk in a store and buy let me know. I'll just keep making do with some of my father and grand fathers tools and whatever us tools i can pick up at swapmeets.

My cousin has a sign on his shop wall:

If you want it fast and good, it wont be cheap
If you want it cheap and fast, it wont be good
If you want it cheap and good, it wont be fast
 
I also think that perhaps the chinese people resent the totalitarianism of communist govt as well and it shows up in thier work. After all,they are in reality just slaves. Hitler started using slaves to built his fleet of panzers,only to have those tanks break down on the battlefield due to many slaves participating in sabotage of motors etc. I've watched few docs about slave labour sabotage during the 2nd world war and allthough we are not at physical war,we are in an economic war.

Why would anyone have pride in a job well done when thier independance has been stripped? I keep reading in the news about china's ferocious editing and control over it's media,how buildings are bulldozed without regard to people living in them and how heavily the chinese people are dealt with.

I think it's impossible to foster excellence in manufacturing under these curcumstances.
 
MachineMan said:
That is why guys like me will buy old stuff and throw in a couple of o-rings, replace the wheels, what ever.

I am alway on the look out for old American or German tools.

Yard sales, garage sales, estate sales.

If there ain't none near you there is eBay.

I would rather have a used quality tool, than a new chinese tool.
.
Click to expand...

I had this recent diemma on what to buy for a master cyl for my Dart. All the new units are chinese,so thier out. The original was too far pitted for a rebuild. But a cardone rebuilt unit would be original material and rebuilt here. So thats what Im waiting for. I just wont buy chinese either if at all possible. The quality of everything chinese just sucks.
 
The problem is that when i needed a jack it was the dead of winter no rummage sales here. Most people don't sell tools around here anyways. Its also not worth it to buy off ebay the shipping on a 100lb jack would be more than what I paid. I would rather have a new tool with a warranty. People around here hang on to things and don't throw them away or get rid of them.
 
I briefly worked for a Chinese owned auto part manufacturer about a year ago as their quality manager. The Chinese upper management was in the plant for a while when I first started. I went from building safety parts to this company. The things I saw them think was "OK" would make you shudder. Thank god it these parts would never threaten a persons life. They are slowly entering the US part manufacturers. I still remember the paranoia "Gun Ho" when the Japanese seemed to be taking over. The Japanese learned from Deming after WW2 because much of the US wasn't ready to accept basic Quality based on statistics at that time. We didn't need to. It took about 25 years for people to embrace it worldwide and the Toyota's started taking over. Toyota got greedy and started putting cost ahead of quality and there you have the ETC's that don't work and their reputation goes to crap. The Chinese are only money driven at this time. If we keep buying crap for cheap this will prove they are right in this theory. I just hope the small minority in China that are sufficiently greedy slow the cheap labor.....who's next?
 
ILLDuster74 said:
The problem is that when i needed a jack it was the dead of winter no rummage sales here. Most people don't sell tools around here anyways. Its also not worth it to buy off ebay the shipping on a 100lb jack would be more than what I paid. I would rather have a new tool with a warranty. People around here hang on to things and don't throw them away or get rid of them.
Click to expand...

I was thinking along the lines of wrenches, ratchets, and ring compressors,... stuff like that.

eBay is good for that.


Then you Borrow a floor jack, use a bottle jack, do anything you can not to give those bastards a cent.

When the weather gets better, you hit craigs list, make your own, steal one from a gas station,........

But don't give those bastards a cent!


Me and my friends have dug our heels in, I'll go hungry before I give one more cent to those commie bastards.

Mister, you need to go hard core, everyone needs to!
.
 
needsaresto said:
I had this recent diemma on what to buy for a master cyl for my Dart. All the new units are chinese,so thier out. The original was too far pitted for a rebuild. But a cardone rebuilt unit would be original material and rebuilt here. So thats what Im waiting for. I just wont buy chinese either if at all possible. The quality of everything chinese just sucks.
Click to expand...


I have bored, honed, made off size pistons for, and sleeved with stainless steel, masters, slaves, & wheel cylinders.

No brag, just fact.

You guys need to remember I have a bunch of 57'- 60' trucks.

To hell with the chinese.................................

Many times I have just moved up 1/32 or 1/16 and made everything perfect and fresh and fitted new piston and rubber.

To hell with the chi com bastards.
.
 
MachineMan said:

.Well, I delivered the fork tubes....................

Within a few minutes this is what happened to what I worked so hard on to make usable.

thumbnail.jpg



I just don't understand.
.
​
Click to expand...

Wow, I bet you found yourself clenching your fist. I know I would. I picked up a multi-tool the other day that was a Snap-on...... made in China.
 
while I certainly have no problems with the citisens of china , I certainly do have a problem with their capitalist-communist combo government , as well as the "American" companies whom have their **** made in that horrid country .

"Generational Debt" is the order-of-the-day . Communists do you or your family a 'solid' , your family gets a generational debt , because the 'loan' can never be paid-off .
Thank you , Bill Clinton !

I've had to grit my Blue Collar teeth , and purchase chinese **** from work ; this was done purely out of necessity , need it now !
Clogged breather ? **** ! Damned thing's made in a chinese sweat shop , by a 3 year old whose great-great-grandfather had a favour done for him by the communists whom killed his kid(s) .

Unfortunately , there are just some things that cannot be bought used ( the breather being a prime example ) . Believe me ; if there was a junk yard near by , and they had a small block MoPar with a good breather , I'd have bought that instead !!!

I buy all of my clothes -- except for under garments and socks -- from the thrift store(s) , including footwear .

I'm into building model cars . Just about every one of these bastards are made in FUC*ING china now !! WTF? .

On the other end of the spectrum , we also have to deal with radical environmentalists .
While I enjoy clean(er) air and whatnot , I cannot stand for the absolute political bullshit that the EPA , CARB , et al. , espouse .
Survival of the fittest , right ?

"save" the Earth .
From what and for whom ???

FU*K CHINA !!
 
GENTS...this dilemma is an age old one, caused by an age old lack of fiber & metal.....the attribute not addressed is GREED! Plain and simple one of the 7 "DEADLY's" and it is proving itself to be DEADLY!!! ALL these know it all MBA's graduating off Daddy's ticket are out there like succubus for profit.....profit profit profit!!!!! NO ONE gives a fiddlers FK about QUALITY OR REPUTATION OR LOYALTY.....NOPE PROFIT that is the word.....if we can charge the same and build it cheaper.....DO IT!!!!

NOW the punch line....what these self centered ego maniacal profit mongers do not realize.....is alll that Money they make cheating and selling inferior parts and generating PROFITS all that $$$$ VERY SOON isnt going to be worth the paper it is printed on BECAUSE of what their lust for PROFIT is doing to our economy.....they want it all and they want it NOW!!! My Dad bought Johnston Murphy shoes, they lasted for years & years a lil shoe polish and they looked good as new ( SHOE polish is a forgotten item with todays youth) as are quality shoes!!! easier to buy some weird name brand SKETCHERS for MORE than my Dad paid for JM's and they MAYBE last a year....BUT your are STYLIN!! and dont need that NASTY shoe polish!!
Point being we have raised an army of ingrate idiots that needed to have the academic programs lowered to suit their lazy do nothing attitudes. We have purchased millions of EXPENSIVE FOREIGN MADE cell phones for children....WHY does a child NEED a cell phone? DOES ANYONE remember how to say NO....does anyone remember how to say respect your elders? MY FAV is that stupid TOyota commercial where the kid calls his family LAME for not buying and driving a TOyota!!!! sorry but CHILDREN DO NOT RUN THIS COUNTRY YET!! they have a few years to go......and WHY are parents letting CHILDREN rule the house? this is all because of GREED!!!!! the NEED for TWO INCOMES to satisfy the useless greed of children keeping up with Paris Hilton..........STOP the greed....learn to say NO and mean it......in 15 years or so the country will turn around on its own...... lack of greed = understanding of value..... understanding of value = customer demand for higher quality product at a REASONABLE PRICE THAT CAN BE AFFORDED BY EVERYONE ( Ford quote)..... that is the simple *** formula that made this a great country and a powerful economic force...... get back to basics, offload the greed....insert the virtues .......and we can climb out.....keep sucking off the people and we are destined to follow the other great lands that went down before us
rant over
 

This is not a political statement...............

The first piece of legislation president clinton signed when he took office was ...........

"The Patent Information Act"

It allows for Patents filed, but not yet granted, to be reviewed by anyone for 50 cents a page.

The chinese have actually have "an office" right there in the Patent office!

They fax anything promising back to china,................

The knock offs get to market before the originals!
.
​
 
.
A good example of how you have to go now-a-days is this.

By my memory..........

The Razor scooter guy knew the score and how we were all being screwed.

So he did not apply for a Patent, he raised the money from family and friends, bought material, had blanks made, had jigs and fixtures made.

Then they quietly assembled and packaged as many as their budget would allow and "Burst" them on the market.


By the time the chinese caught on to what was up, and had to gear up and knock out product, kids "only wanted the original" Razor scooter.

For once the chinese were playing catch up, not us, because they did not have the chance to see the drawing and plans ahead of time!
.
 
Well I am currently laid off....nonetheless....I work for a world leading company that makes twin screw extruders....our biggest competitor is a german company.....last year it was brought to our attention that a Chineese company was making some extruder screws and we were losing business because they were about 60% cheaper than ours....needless to say I will be going back to work soon because all these companies are coming back to us.....imagine if you will...our screws in line lasted on average 8 times longer than the chineese made.....so the question answers itself...it doesnt always pay to buy cheap....oh and by the way we hold tolerances to less than .001 on the screws and hit it consistently because we know what we are doing and care about what we do.
 
Agreed 66Cuda! Greed will be the death of our nations,simply put. Effing investors always wanting more and more.
 
12valve said:
no copyright laws so they let us do all the research and development and absorb all of those costs then blatantly copy it.
Click to expand...

That ain't the half of it! Get a load of this:

There's an international-consensus set of vehicle and equipment safety standards known as the ECE regulations. Almost every country in the world (except the USA, but that's a different rant) requires or accepts vehicles and equipment built to comply with (and type-approved to) the ECE standards. China has their own national standards. The technical content is identical to that of the ECE regulations, but ECE type approvals aren't accepted. In order to sell a vehicle or component on the Chinese market, you (the manufacturer) have to get what is called a CCC, China Compulsory Certificate. You don't have to redesign your vehicle or component (seat belt, brake, headlamp, whatever), because you've already designed it to conform to ECE specs, and Chinese regulations are technically identical. What you do have to do is submit a full set of blueprints to the Chinese government and permit an open-door, nothing-hidden inspection of your facilities and production line by Chinese government agents. Then you get your CCC...

...and the Chinese government gets your intellectual property, every last shred of it, no holds barred, nothing kept secret (that is, if you want to sell your stuff in China). And what do you suppose they do with it? If you guessed "hand it over wholesale to Chinese companies", you win!
 
needsaresto said:
a cardone rebuilt unit
Click to expand...


slantsixdan said:
...is unreliable garbage.
Click to expand...


So you're saying in this case, American workers can shove $#!+ out the door just like the Chinese??? Tsk, tsk, tsk. Just messing with you. Everyone knows that Cardone is crap.


And for all you China haters, I hope I don't read about any of you building a stroker motor for your Mopar. As you very well know, about 99% of those stroker cranks and rods are forged in China and then sent to the States for final machining. But wait, you hardly ever hear about these cranks and rods failing. The American machining techniques must turn those pos Chinese forging into a reliable product. That must be it...... or..... is it that the Chinese can build a good product when given good specifications? The Chinese will build to whatever specs they are given. If some cheap-*** engineer specifies cheap-*** materials you get a cheap-*** product that won't last.


Wylde1.

PS. Asian poontang still rates #1 in my book. :downtown: :thumbup:
 
first about 20/30 years ago it was Japan that was going to overtake the U.S. now its China, after that scare we will find another culprit/ Bad guy, India maybe, Africa??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top