* Major Rant! *

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MachineMan

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Nov 13, 2010
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Location
So. Calif
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Business is very slow so I walked around the corner where there are a couple of shops that build hot rods and harleys.

One is a shop that some guy just rented three months ago, I stopped in and gave him a card.

Looking around I saw projects, a harley or two, a
Belvedere, a nova with a big engine.

Everything in that shop was "Way" clapped out.

Everything was rusted out, bent, dented, or otherwise whacked out.

I don't criticize peoples stuff, he is having more fun than I am, so big deal.

Turns out he is from the North West, that is why all his stuff is so rusted out, floor pans you could pass a a lunch box through, stuff like that.

He calls me and ask if I can shorten and re-thread a pair of harley fork tubes, I come by to pick em' up and they are really clapped out....
can I polish them up too?

I said I could spin em' and hit with chrome brite, he says cool.

He calls in a day or two and asks hows it going, and if I have an idea of cost.

I tell him my shop rate is $65 hr, (same as 1989), and that I forecast about 2 to 2 1/2 hrs. each.

He says "I can get new ones for $55" , I say "What!", that is impossible!

Then I say you can't even chrome plate these for $55, how on earth could you buy new ones............

"Oh wait I say", "are you talking about some chinese copies?

His answer, "Uh ... yeah"

I say, "you expect me to work for a dollar an hour like they do in china?"

He says, "well it doesn't matter now, just finish em"

He claims he told me that he could get some new for $55, "I told him no way, you didn't"

If he did I would have right away asked if he expected me to work for chinese wages.

So if new ones are $55, a shorten, thread, & polish should be about half of that.

So I suppose in under an hour I was supposed to do 4 to 5 hours work.


* Anyone else here get this chinese knock off baloney thrown in their face in a situation like this? *


These parts finish up at 26 1/2" long, 1.375-18 female thread,.900 deep, in heat treated steel.

Plus the set up,etc.


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It is really difficult to polish when the pitted peeling chrome keep snatching the rag out of my hand.


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When I said "clapped out" I was not joking around.

Maybe this guy is a nut.
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I get a lot of "well the place down the street is a lot cheaper" in which we reply go to the shop down the street if you want cheap.

I dont understand how someone can properly detail a car for $100. I spent 4hrs on a Nissian GTR that pretty much is never. Supplies, Rent, insurance, I've had weeks were I thought I was pretty busy but at the end of the week I made a profit of $250
 
sounds like a speed freak .

the only "real" way to protest this influx of chinese garbage is by purchasing as much used stuff as you can ( thrift stores , yard sales , etc. ) .
Let's work together to starve china !!!!
 
Seems to be any business your in you have customers who want it "good and cheap"..well if you want good it ain't cheap...you want cheap it ain't good. I hear it all the time....quoted a job a few weeks ago for $3500., which is lower then a few years ago and the guy says he can get the same thing from his buddy in New york for $2500.
Go to New York then...
 
I used to get that all the time. I'd come back and say;

Well, you came to me, I don't advertise, so my rep. must be good with others for them to send you to me. (AND, as GTGrinly said) You want cheap, that guy does it cheaper? Go get it done there. I'm not doing it any cheaper. Get what you pay for? This could very well be the case. IDK what they do, but I know what I do and no one has ever come back to complain. They just send there freinds over. I must be doing something right.
 
I sell a lot of rechromed bumpers for American cars from the 60s and 70s. 95% of my inventory are bumpers that are not reproduced - for a reason. A lot of people nowadays will shop around and find the absolute lowest price (reguardless of quality) like Chinese knockoffs and from companies like Bumper Boyz. Then they'll expect you to sell your factory original, American made and plated bumper for less.

Interesting story from about a week ago (I do have a couple 71-72 Monte Carlo bumpers that are reproduced).

A guy calls me up and says:

"Do you have a front bumper for a 72 Monte Carlo?"

I go "yes I do - it's probably only driver quality and I'll take $200 plus shipping for it".

He goes "Can you do any better than that?"

I go "This is an original bumper that was replated in the US by well known company".

After a little hesitation he goes "Are you sure you can't come down any lower than that? You'll have to come down some - I can get an LOS one for $229.95."

So I'm thinking (WTF is LOS?). So I ask "What is LOS?" :rolleyes:

He goes "LOS means "Like Old Stock" ".

I literally started laughing at this point - looks like the Chevy guys have come up with a new term I've never heard before.

So I reply "Just the fact that you mentioned this makes me think that you are the type of person who would be more than happy with a cheap dull Chinese knockoff that probably won't fit your car right, anyway. Good luck." Then I hung up on him. :evil4:

A couple days later the guys body man calls me and trys to get the bumper. He was a little more sensible and knew how bad some repro stuff can be. We talked for a while but he still ended up not buying it. He did admit the guy he was doing the car for was kind of a dork, though. :lol:
 
Talked with a guy once a couple years back that had a 68 coronet ragtop painted. He was running the guy that painted the car down big time about what a poor job he had done. I said to him "If I might ask what did you pay him to paint the car?" His reply to me was "$800.00" I said " you got your money worth" People need to understand you can't by quality material to paint a car complete for $800.00 much less do any work to the car for that. I just don't get it. :roll:
Matt
 
A buddy owns a trans shop, he goes thru this on a regular basis. He has been in business for a long time, usually just lets it go. This is the very reason I HATE selling vehicles. Sold a bike years ago, the as said NO TRADES. After the 6th call asking about a trade I starting saying yes. That is when the fun began. Had a guy claiming his truck was worth 15k and he wanted to trade it for my bike that I was selling for 3k. Let him drive the hour to a meeting point near my home and told him if his truck was really worth that much he could take it around the corner to one of the car lots that bought used vehicles, sell it for 10k and ride home with the bike and 7k. Pissed him off, to which my reply was how do you think I feel considering my ad says no trades???
 
I work at a feed store and get the hay is cheaper down the street thing some times. I just say thats nice. The thing is some people just say that to try and get you to drop your price. I have had two different people in on the same day. One will say it is less down the street the other will say I am less than down the street. So witch is it?
 
Hoyeah, I get crap like this all of the time. "Can I have a quantity discount?" (Noooo, you're ordering one pair of headlamps for one car. Where's the quantity?). "Can I have free shipping?" (Noooo, there's nothing such as 'free' shipping. Someone has to pay it. I'm not about to hide the cost of shipping in the product price and claim the shipping's "free"; that's lying). "I'm not going to buy your $75 headlights because I can get headlights for $18 on eBay/JC Whitney/some other vendor" (Okeh, your choice; I'll be here when you're after real working headlamps rather than headlight-shaped toys.) "I bought $18 headlights from JC Whitney/eBay/etc and I want to make them work well so sell me good bulbs for them" (I can sell you every last bulb in stock and it still won't turn toys into headlamps.), etc. That's the cheapskate category.

Then there's the ignorant-prick-with-bloated-sense-of-entitlement category. You can spot this species by their mating call, which sounds like "The customer is always right!". :roll:
 
Yeah;Everytime the entitled comes to the yard it's-I can get it at Auto Zone for a gazillion less.Then they usually say,can I pay you the first of the month?
 
Please don't think that everything that comes out of the NorthWest is wrote. I live in Eastern Wa and our stuff is pretty rust free. This area is compared to Arizona. I do agree there has been a influx of poor shops and shitty work as of late. It seems like there are people that know just enough to open a shop and prey on the people that know nothing at all. There are things that i'm good at but body work I have had to farm out and have ended up totally disapointed. I didn't mean to take over your rant but you had a good one going. i could go on for ever.
 
Tell him to go buy the chinese ****. He will come to you in a year or so and complain about that junk too. We CANNOT compare chinese junk to anything made here.
 
A buddy owns a trans shop, he goes thru this on a regular basis. He has been in business for a long time, usually just lets it go. This is the very reason I HATE selling vehicles. Sold a bike years ago, the as said NO TRADES. After the 6th call asking about a trade I starting saying yes. That is when the fun began. Had a guy claiming his truck was worth 15k and he wanted to trade it for my bike that I was selling for 3k. Let him drive the hour to a meeting point near my home and told him if his truck was really worth that much he could take it around the corner to one of the car lots that bought used vehicles, sell it for 10k and ride home with the bike and 7k. Pissed him off, to which my reply was how do you think I feel considering my ad says no trades???

Lol,nice one Doug!! I'll have to remember that one...
 
Used to get some of that poor mouth stuff in the machine shop business too. I would just tell them that that other guy was in a better position to know what his work was worth than I would be.
 
sounds like a speed freak .

the only "real" way to protest this influx of chinese garbage is by purchasing as much used stuff as you can ( thrift stores , yard sales , etc. ) .
Let's work together to starve china !!!!

I think you are 100% right!
on both counts.

Me and my friends go to garage sales, yard sales, and estate sales.

Check out the thread I posted a day ago, about one of us finding $5000 in 1929 $20 dollar bills.

Found hidden in a stack of old news papers.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=135319
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I have no idea how Chinese companies make some of the things they do for the price, considering shipping, retail markup, etc. However, it is not all junk and is getting better every day. Someday "made in China" will be as good as a "made in Japan" label.

I buy a lot of good, usable tools at Harbor Freight. Maybe no good for a busy shop, but fine for a home garage. I just got a Mopar small block distributor w/ electronic ignition for $40 (haven't tried yet).

You must trust free enterprise. Other economic models have been tried and proved unworkable (ex. communism). Chinese labor costs are going up and our salaries/benefits are dropping. We will someday reach equity, though most Americans won't like living at the world average. In the mean-time, I buy all the fantastically priced Chinese products I can while the price is right.
 
Please don't think that everything that comes out of the NorthWest is wrote. I live in Eastern Wa and our stuff is pretty rust free. This area is compared to Arizona. I do agree there has been a influx of poor shops and shitty work as of late. It seems like there are people that know just enough to open a shop and prey on the people that know nothing at all. There are things that i'm good at but body work I have had to farm out and have ended up totally disapointed. I didn't mean to take over your rant but you had a good one going. i could go on for ever.

No Zig...........

I understand, sorry.

A lot of the guys here know I lived in Auburn for 5 years, (45 minutes South of Seattle), I know Eastern Wash. is just the "opposite" of Western Wash.

It looks like Palmdale,(desert scrub brush, dry as a bone).

I meant no slam on you or yours, I was referring to the wet West side of Washington.

1979-1984 was some of the best years of my life, I made many friends and everyone shared what little they had.

"Best" people I ever met in my life.
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I have no idea how Chinese companies make some of the things they do for the price, considering shipping, retail markup, etc. However, it is not all junk and is getting better every day. Someday "made in China" will be as good as a "made in Japan" label.

I buy a lot of good, usable tools at Harbor Freight. Maybe no good for a busy shop, but fine for a home garage. I just got a Mopar small block distributor w/ electronic ignition for $40 (haven't tried yet).

You must trust free enterprise. Other economic models have been tried and proved unworkable (ex. communism). Chinese labor costs are going up and our salaries/benefits are dropping. We will someday reach equity, though most Americans won't like living at the world average. In the mean-time, I buy all the fantastically priced Chinese products I can while the price is right.

Myself and my group of friends do our very best to not give a penny to the chinese.

Word is they are purposely selling things under priced in order to cause American & other countries manufacturing base to collapse.

After that, they can charge whatever they wish, they will be the only game in town.


I saw the same thing here on a small scale...................

Paintball industry

The best business is one that sells something that can only be used once.

Food, paint, glue, medicine, Paintballs.

So this guy buys some equipment, and starts making and selling paintballs, at almost half the price.

Just as good as the ones already on the market.

Everyone was saying, "How can they do it?"

They couldn't, they took a beating for two years, then the other makers starting closing their doors.

They attended the auctions for the special equipment and grew bigger.

Once all the competition was hammered they raised the price to higher then ever before.

They had no more competition.......... they became......

The only game in town.
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.Well
, I delivered the fork tubes....................

Within a few minutes this is what happened to what I worked so hard on to make usable.

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I just don't understand.
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I have no idea how Chinese companies make some of the things they do for the price, considering shipping, retail markup, etc. However, it is not all junk and is getting better every day. Someday "made in China" will be as good as a "made in Japan" label.

Since you have no idea let me educate you:

China will not allow their currency to be valued on the free market, they have zero environmental controls and less than zero worker safety protections. Add to that no copyright laws so they let us do all the research and development and absorb all of those costs then blatantly copy it.

Now that you have been educated maybe you will make a better decision next time.
 
Someday "made in China" will be as good as a "made in Japan" label.

It's tempting to think so, and perhaps eventually poor Chinese quality will be the exception rather than the rule. You make a good point about free enterprise; it is interesting to see the large difference between Taiwanese stuff (much of which is now very good and all of which is getting better) and Chinese stuff (much of which is still utter garbage). What a difference a little freedom makes, eh! But there are some important factors you don't appear to be considering. The Japanese (and the Koreans and Taiwanese after them) started out building trash because that was all they were equipped to build, and that is all the world wanted to buy from them. Culturally, both the Japanese and the Koreans have a long history of valuing quality and durability. The Japanese got a big boost on that front after WWII, when American know-how (which was very good at the time) was poured in large quantity into Japan.

The Chinese, on the other hand, for many decades actively scorned such basic concepts as engineering and specialization, which they considered decadent and quaint Western affectations. Mao had a deep-seated loathing for engineers and other intellectuals, and so did everything he could to minimise their contribution to Chinese society. In the so-called Great Leap Forward, intellectuals were rounded up and shot, and Mao (who didn't know a thing about metallurgy) ordered farmers to quit farming and instead build small coal smelters on their land, melt down their farming implements and turn them into raw steel. He thought this would act as a springboard for China to have a sudden industrial revolution. What actually happened was a sudden lack of food because nobody was farming, a sudden lack of farm implements because they'd all been melted down, and a sudden glut of utterly useless metal goo that couldn't even remotely be called steel. Vast numbers of people starved to death. Think I'm exaggerating? Nope! I recently read a 1970 booklet from China entitled "China Tames Her Rivers". It is full of eye-poppingly extreme Communist propaganda, but every word of it was meant seriously, including these: "There were early attempts by traitors to hoodwink the people with such decadent Western notions as 'put technique first' and 'place specialists in charge of engineering'. These traitors were swiftly dealt with."

So, culturally, China not only has no history of valuing quality as we know it, but they actually have a strong history of violently devaluing it. They will emerge from this, but it's going to take awhile. Unfortunately, Western MBAs don't want to wait until China figures out how to participate in the 21st century, and many of us are shortsighted enough to aggravate the problem by shopping at Wal-Mart and Harbor Freight.

You seem to think it's okeh to eat food grown in grossly polluted ground and watered with grossly polluted water and adulterated with all kinds of hideously toxic substances. You seem to think it's okeh to buy car parts made out of mulched-up 7-year-old girls whose "crime" is being female and political dissidents whose "crime" is demanding freedom. You seem to think it's okeh to send yet more money to a country that effectively owns the US economy (all they have to do is call in the debt, and we are toast). I guess you're comfortable with all those things. I'm not.
 
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