Making the grown up decision

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I also don't agree with the comment that this is not a hobby for 22 year olds. I welcome the young guys here and encourage them to get into the hobby. They are the ones that will have to carry on the tradition when us old farts are gone.
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the problem is the money these rust buckets bring and what the parts cost. makes it very hard for the young guys to enjoy the hobby is what i'm saying. just look through the treads the last couple of days and look at the problems the young guys are having and the problems they are pressed with. just about everything is crazy money for mopars. the hobby has gone all to hell ever since the check book crowd got into mopars.. when i was just getting into it the old timers and the big guys in the hobby helped the young guys out with parts and knowledge all the time. its not anything like that anymore. yes some still do but not like like in the past. it sucks for the young guys these days. its a lot harder then years past. i feel sorry for those guys.. i try to do my part to pass anything i may know on when i can...

my advice to any young guys is always the same now that i know better.. forget about playing with these stupid cars until later in life when you should be in a better position to do so.. go travel and see the world ( hell atleast the united states at the least) while still young and have fun...
 
krazykuda said:
Joe:

It was this comment that sorta made me think you were bashing the guy I was talking about. I sorta read into it that because my guy probably would be cheaper than $8500 he wouldn't do quality work.

I'm sorry if that is not what you meant. I'm not trying to start anything here, just pointing out that I think $8500 is high for how clean his Scamp is.

I also don't agree with the comment that this is not a hobby for 22 year olds. I welcome the young guys here and encourage them to get into the hobby. They are the ones that will have to carry on the tradition when us old farts are gone. Besides these cars are capable of being fixed in a garage with a standard set of tools and a service manual. Not special tools and computer hook ups like new cars.

Yeah, it can cost a little. But the b and e bodies are too expensive even for some of us old farts. The a bodies are more affordable and also weigh less, so they go faster with the same horsepower. I think that a bodies are a great start for a young person (male or female) that likes to work on cars. It will also help keep them on a good path. If they invest all/most of their money in their cars, they won't have any to get involved in drugs. And they have much more to show for it when they finish their project. Not to mention the pride, sense of accomplishment, and boost of their self esteem when they finish their cars.

There is nothing like the thrill that goes up and down your spine when you have rebuilt your first engine and start it for the first time. It's way better than any drug out there. When you hear the engine start and come to life, and you know it was your work that did it, and that rush that goes through your body when the engine roars to life...all because of you. You can't wait to get the cam broke in and the engine tuned so you can cruise it around and show all of your friends. It makes you want to do it again...

Why keep this from the new generation? They deserve to feel it just like we did. Not to mention all that they have learned to get that far.
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I can't agree with you more on this statement. I think we were all there at some point in our life and if we followed that train of thinking we wouldn't be doing our cars today. Experience is the best teacher. Scamperly could remove the trim parts off his car and bag the hardware with labels so he could put it back together when it is done if the person doing the work would agree. He would learn and save some $$$$ at the same time. The first car I did was a 1967 Mustang and I did as I mentioned and all it cost was $35.00 labor to have the paint shot at the Chevrolet dealership with the best quality set up at the time. That was doing the door jambs, inside the trunk and hood areas. I did the taping and he told me what I had done wrong so I had to do it until I got it correct. Yes this was 1975 and things have changed. I took off everything that would unbolt and hand sanded that car from end to end. The car turned out beautiful since it was painted midnight blue metal flake. Thanks to that painter and a mechanic that would allow me to watch and do the dirty stuff when he worked on my car is the only reasons I am in to cars today. I listened, I learned and I took the bumps in the road when I did something wrong. Thank God that neither of them had a mindset that a car wasn't a hobby for a 16/17 year old. Because of those type of people I never have smoked, done drugs and never been an alcoholic. One to two drinks a year is the maximum for me. I would rather put money in my tools and cars.
 
looks like a nice clean little car as is. Yeah has some rust but if undercarriage is clean a very good car to cruise in.

Not all car have to have 20K paint jobs to drive and have fun.

If you really want something different sell it. If you like the car you will regret it until you buy it back or get another to build like that one.

Did I read your dad wanted it? the best option is to sell it to him and let him keep it so when the day comes that you say, Dad I wish I had never sold my 1st car, he can tell you he knows the owner and willing to sell it back to you.

I have over $2,000 in paint supplies only in my Dart and it was painted in 2004, My back yard paint job and body work was more than you were quoted, (my guy does show quality work in his back yard)

It looks good enough now that you could go to local community school with a body class and learn how to do the repairs yourself. then it will only cost you the parts and supplies. If you are uncomfortable doing the finish paint hire someone to spray it once you do all the grunt prep and sanding.

Personally wish I had my 1st 67 Barracuda, but would not have gotten the 69 Roadrunner if I hadn't traded it. My 2nd 67 Barracuda would have been nice to have kept too, and my 71 Cuda convertible, could go on and on, like my 1st new car, DAMN I HAVE A LONG LIST OF CARS I WISH I COULD HAVE KEPT. Unless you had a silver spoon in your mouth when you were born and have to work for what you have, it is hard to keep them all.

Problem with most young people is they want instant gradification, it takes time for the money, time and experience to come together. With the current economy it might take a little longer.
 
Thank God that neither of them had a mindset that a car wasn't a hobby for a 16/17 year old.
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you gathered your experience in 1975 when you could go to any local yard and get parts dirt cheap for these cars... thats the big difference.. its not like that anymore.. want to learn to do body and mechanical work these days? your better off getting a cheap *** disposable civic or something.. a car like that would be comparable to out unwanted disposable mopars back in the day....
 
abodyjoe said:
the problem is the money these rust buckets bring and what the parts cost. makes it very hard for the young guys to enjoy the hobby is what i'm saying. it sucks for the young guys these days. its a lot harder then years past. i feel sorry for those guys.. i try to do my part to pass anything i may know on when i can...

my advice to any young guys is always the same now that i know better.. forget about playing with these stupid cars until later in life when you should be in a better position to do so.. go travel and see the world ( hell atleast the united states at the least) while still young and have fun...
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Hey Joe:

No hard feelings here. I see your point about the young guys, but I would still encourage them to start at any age that they can. The sooner the better.

Hell, I just saw more of the country this year fetching parts than I have my whole life. 4 trips east and one to Oklahoma. I enjoyed seeing the mountains and plains while picking up parts too big/heavy to ship (axles, engines, trans, etc).

I hear ya about the "checkbook" guys. I hate them also. I try to stay clear of them myself. The best thing that we can do as "old timers" is to help out the younger crowd. Give them a break when they need a part that you have and accept a little less or even give it to them. If you don't need the money that badly, then give them a break.

There was a guy here from Plainfield that I met in the mid 80's, Hal Meyer. He transported a Challenger convertible rear quarter panel back from the Mopar Nats for me when we did not have enough room in our car. One day I pulled the 273 out of my Barracuda and was going to put the 340 in and the left motor mount did not fit. I called him for advice and he told me that they were different and that he should have one in his basement. I drove 45 minutes out to his house and he had one. I asked him how much he wanted for it, and he said to take it for free. I appreciated that he did that for me and still do to this day. I later traded him a six pack carb and manifolds for a 340 short block. He also sold me on Rhoades lifters which I now use exclusively.

So the best thing that us older crowd can do is to try to help out the young guns and give them a break when/if we can. They will appreciate it and it will encourage them to keep at it...
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
WOAH, back that baby up!! If a guy is trying to charge you $8500 to repair that he is screwing you over unless there is major issues under the car. That car looks like it only needs some patch panels. What is the floor pans, frame rails and the spare well like?
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I agree! Now granted there are some new laws that allow for only water based paint and material for paint jobs has more than doubled overnight because of it here in Canada.

But $8500 is a ripoff any way you look at it.

There is always more rust to fix than you can see ,but in your case the car really aint bad at all. Heck I could have that patched in a couple hours and primed /painted within 10.
 
needsaresto said:
I agree! Now granted there are some new laws that allow for only water based paint and material for paint jobs has more than doubled overnight because of it here in Canada.

But $8500 is a ripoff any way you look at it.

There is always more rust to fix than you can see ,but in your case the car really aint bad at all. Heck I could have that patched in a couple hours and primed /painted within 10.
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The thing is I took it to a few body shops (3 different ones) and another independent guy two years ago and they all quoted me roughly $7000 and this was before the water based paint laws. So $8500 for a guy who does top quality work (did vic's barracuda) is not out of line at all.

Basically, without knowing how to do it yourself or knowing someone, body work is prohibitively expensive, at least here in Winnipeg.
 
list it on ebay, take the money and buy an import
I don't think you are cut out to own a classic
 
WildCat said:
It looks good enough now that you could go to local community school with a body class and learn how to do the repairs yourself. then it will only cost you the parts and supplies. If you are uncomfortable doing the finish paint hire someone to spray it once you do all the grunt prep and sanding.
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The biggest problem with this plan is time. I have been working full time and putting myself through university, and frankly free time is not something I have. Between work, classes, and homework my life is pretty much 100% filled. If I had a house and a garage I might keep her in there and try to find a way to learn but the truth is I don't and sinking tons of money into a project car is entirely unrealistic at this point in my life and the forseeable future.

To fix a car up you need time or money, and frankly I have no time and the money situation doesn't allow me to just put $8500+ into a car. I could afford that in 5 or ten years maybe but by then it'll be well over 10k and the car will be in worse shape.
 
caferacerx said:
list it on ebay, take the money and buy an import
I don't think you are cut out to own a classic
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What??? Own an import?? Do you like being out of a job???


We need to support buying AMERICAN cars here. The big three; Chrysler, Ford, and GM. Support your local economy. If you buy an import car, then you deserve to be out of a job. Period.

Bash me all you want, but you need to support the UAW because they will support you. The UAW workers believe in buying American. If you buy their products, they will buy yours. A great portion of our economy depends on the automotive market. The big three have suppliers located all over the country. When they go through hard times it trickles down to their suppliers and their local economy.
 
scamperly said:
The only thing keeping me from being "cut out to own a classic" is money and frankly that's a major part of it.
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it has nothing at all to do with money, that is your problem, you think it IS about money, or lack of ability, or not enough time,

excuses, excuses, excuses! and I quote
"It started eating brakes in 2007 because of a sticky caliper that I still haven't fixed."
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!

you haven't the slightest idea how to maintain a car ANY car let alone an older one, and you appear completely unwilling to learn, once again I quote you

"I usually only keep a car for 6 months at best. (i'm 22, have owned 14 cars 2 motorcycles and a scooter)."

once again I have to ask IS THIS A JOKE??

may I recommend getting a nice new hundai with a warranty
you are not cut out to own a classic car and I doubt you ever will be
 
Finally somebody that has brains.LOL.I look at late teenagers,early 20,s young people today and remember when I was that age looking for work.It was a dream to get a job at any of the Big 3(Chrysler,Ford,GM).I guess my dream came true,I,ve been a Ford employee for 25 yrs now.The way young people see these import cars and want one,they,re forgetting about their future.I belong to the C.A.W(Canadian Auto Workers)union and we haven,t hired any new employees in 8 yrs.It,s time for the young guns to open their eyes and think of their future or heck,just move to China.:wack:
 
If you love the car and you have emotion for it or even if you think you might, Tough it out and save it for when you do have money to work on it. I promise you that you will regret selling it if that car is anything more to you than a car. You are young and life is long, but its hard to get a good Mopar. I say be patient, work hard and build your future while keeping your car for when things are better.

I have come these conclusions by personal experiences. I used to have a sweet 69 Super Bee. I sold it and have regretted it every day since then. Im not the only one that wishes they would have just held on to what they had when they were young and waited it out.

Good luck on what you choose to do.

CM
 
krazykuda said:
What??? Own an import?? Do you like being out of a job???


We need to support buying AMERICAN cars here. The big three; Chrysler, Ford, and GM. Support your local economy. If you buy an import car, then you deserve to be out of a job. Period.

Bash me all you want, but you need to support the UAW because they will support you. The UAW workers believe in buying American. If you buy their products, they will buy yours. A great portion of our economy depends on the automotive market. The big three have suppliers located all over the country. When they go through hard times it trickles down to their suppliers and their local economy.
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chrysler is owned by fiat
and toyotas are made here
I got no problem with americans buying foreign cars
as long as foreigners buy american cars
 
caferacerx said:
list it on ebay, take the money and buy an import
I don't think you are cut out to own a classic
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Wow: That was Harsh! Hopefully meant as a complete joke and LOL while typing it.
This debate about $$$ for a quality paint job is silly. There are so many grades of materials and Paint. Clear coats come in many choices. Someone "could" do a great job on that car for under $5,000 but they would be giving a great deal if there's rot under they vinyl top and various places. Nonetheless, Time is the only factor. If he takes the time to gradually save up while searching for a great deal and learning to do some of the work himself, He can end up with a great car that's worth more than invested. Right now with the crummy economy, it's easy to put more into a project than it's worth. He's gotta decide on the time-frame factor.
 
OwdKasd said:
Wow: That was Harsh! Hopefully meant as a complete joke and LOL while typing it.
This debate about $$$ for a quality paint job is silly. There are so many grades of materials and Paint. Clear coats come in many choices. Someone "could" do a great job on that car for under $5,000 but they would be giving a great deal if there's rot under they vinyl top and various places. Nonetheless, Time is the only factor. If he takes the time to gradually save up while searching for a great deal and learning to do some of the work himself, He can end up with a great car that's worth more than invested. Right now with the crummy economy, it's easy to put more into a project than it's worth. He's gotta decide on the time-frame factor.
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harsh? perhaps, but not a joke
if this kid wants to "make the grown up decision" he needs to grow up first
 
QUOTE=caferacerx;1534334]list it on ebay, take the money and buy an import
I don't think you are cut out to own a classic[/QUOTE]

I've been quietly following this whole thread, but this is too much. Caferacerx, you are out of line with this last comment. Scamperly has limited knowledge, but is a hard worker & more than willing to get down & dirty. He has always loved his Scamp but sometimes reality can be a bitter pill.

The car is not as nice as it looks in the pix. He wanted a quote on a complete redo . The body guy I hooked him up with has done several show winning street rods & quoted him on a show quality finish & the price reflected the amount of work involved. This was not a quick scuff & shoot, but a complete strip down including vinyl top removal, roof rot repair, body made razor straight, color change,(including underhood) refinish & reassembly.
 
caferacerx said:
harsh? perhaps, but not a joke
if this kid wants to "make the grown up decision" he needs to grow up first
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These Kids are behaving the way we raised them. They can do incredible things with computers and various other technology. I am lucky that my son likes to tear into stuff and work with his hands but He inherited the "bug". My Grandpa was a Violin maker and any thing with strings was his baby. I am the same way. I can play any stringed instrument by ear and can't even read music very well. But I payed the bills as a bass player for years.
Some of our kids don't have the built in skills to work with their hands. I can't condone bashing them.
We need to work together and help each other for it all to work.
Just like I can't condone them exploiting us and our ability to work with our hands.
It's gotta be give and take. Calling kids punks and bashing them is in no way helping them. Local Mopar guys need to stop by and help these kids. I could go on and on but deep down you know I'm right.
Like it or not, these kids are going to inherit the earth and we'll be chucked in the clay...........
Plus it's thanks to the greed of the old pricks that our economy is in the shitter.
 
abodyjoe said:
you gathered your experience in 1975 when you could go to any local yard and get parts dirt cheap for these cars... thats the big difference.. its not like that anymore.. want to learn to do body and mechanical work these days? your better off getting a cheap *** disposable civic or something.. a car like that would be comparable to out unwanted disposable mopars back in the day....
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Yep and I worked for a $1.25 an hour also. Gas was $0.60 a gallon. My Mustang was an 8-9 year old car. Pull A Part yards are full of cars from 1988 to 1998 and some much newer in Oklahoma City. Fender is $30, Loaded door is $60 and seats are $10 per seat. I recall buying a fender for a Pinto in 1979 and it was $35 and the door was $50. Wages are at least $7.25 per hour in the states. You know that compariblely it would be cheaper now for parts for 15 and 20 year old cars then it was then. It was expensive to build 1955 to 1957 Chevy and 1955 to 1957 T-Birds back when I was 16 or 17. There wasn't tons of reproduction parts, you had to get off your a$$, find parts you needed and not be a whiner if momma and daddy didn't have a fat check book open for you. Nothing has changed in the parts area, just the new cars got old. Back then we had local newspapers and Hemmings Motor News instead of just sitting in front of a computer screen clicking away at what you want to buy. Paint and material cost have been the big bites in the hobby if your aren't building any hopped up engine or something.
 
Well lets put it this way. You sound like a future "money guy" who will be able to pay others for the work,but not yet.

I would find a good place to store the car while you finish up school,and build a career. And no the car wont deteriorate any further if it is in dry storage and not driven. You could even just put it up on blocks and cover it with a water proof tarp,or one of those cheap car tents.

It all depends on how attached you are to the car.

I have waited more than 17 yrs to get to restore my Dart and now I have M.S,but Im still trying so dont give up so easy O.K?

Go buy a good reliable daily driver for now.
 
OwdKasd said:
These Kids are behaving the way we raised them. They can do incredible things with computers and various other technology. I am lucky that my son likes to tear into stuff and work with his hands but He inherited the "bug". My Grandpa was a Violin maker and any thing with strings was his baby. I am the same way. I can play any stringed instrument by ear and can't even read music very well. But I payed the bills as a bass player for years.
Some of our kids don't have the built in skills to work with their hands. I can't condone bashing them.
We need to work together and help each other for it all to work.
Just like I can't condone them exploiting us and our ability to work with our hands.
It's gotta be give and take. Calling kids punks and bashing them is in no way helping them. Local Mopar guys need to stop by and help these kids. I could go on and on but deep down you know I'm right.
Like it or not, these kids are going to inherit the earth and we'll be chucked in the clay...........
Plus it's thanks to the greed of the old pricks that our economy is in the shitter.
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X2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cant agree more. Dont know why this poor young fellow is getting bashed. Why not help him?
 
IfItsGotWheels said:
QUOTE=caferacerx;1534334]list it on ebay, take the money and buy an import
I don't think you are cut out to own a classic
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I've been quietly following this whole thread, but this is too much. Caferacerx, you are out of line with this last comment. Scamperly has limited knowledge, but is a hard worker & more than willing to get down & dirty. He has always loved his Scamp but sometimes reality can be a bitter pill.

The car is not as nice as it looks in the pix. He wanted a quote on a complete redo . The body guy I hooked him up with has done several show winning street rods & quoted him on a show quality finish & the price reflected the amount of work involved. This was not a quick scuff & shoot, but a complete strip down including vinyl top removal, roof rot repair, body made razor straight, color change,(including underhood) refinish & reassembly.[/QUOTE]


for some reason this didnt quote properly above is what "ifitsgotwheels" said and below is my reply



not every car NEEDS a show quality paint job
and if he is such a hard worker and loves his car why hasn't he fixed the bad brake caliper? in 5 years he couldn't have a brake caliper replaced?
sorry that doesn't sound like someone who loves his car or his safety, let alone the safety of any one else on the road, if you cant keep up with basic maintenance your better off buying something new with a warranty
and I dont think that is out of line, just because someone likes the "idea" of owning an old car doesn't make them capable of the reality of owning one, it takes desire AND dedication, it sounds to me like your friend has the "desire" but lacks the "dedication"
 
Scamperly, don't sell the car. You'll regret every minute after it drives away. I sold mine and it took me 20 years to get back to it.
 
Alright it's time to set some things straight.

Since you're so fixated on the brake problem let me elaborate:
The car started eating brakes in 2007, I thought it was a bad rotor so I replaced the pads and rotors. The problem came back in 2008 so I ordered new calipers from rockauto and then got a refund when I was told they weren't in stock. I also started trying to source a good set of calipers online but couldn't find any so I instead had the rotors machined two different times while I tried to get a hand on some calipers. I haven't been driving the car much in the last few years because I was trying to squirrel away money and parts and save up to do everything at once.

The car sits most of the year, and saw a week of action this year when my daily had a flat and I had to wait a week to get the tire in because no local shops had the size I need. I take it out and drive it every once in a while in the summer, but it realistically barely sees even 500kms in a year right now because of the condition it's in.

Why was I looking for a show quality resto? Because if a job is worth doing it's worth doing right. I can spend $7000 at a shop getting a mediocre paint job or $8500 getting a good one. The fact is that neither of those are affordable but the point of the matter is I've never been a person to settle for mediocre.

As far as hard work and dedication go, my car comes after I have my future taken care of. I've been living by myself, paying for school myself, and working full time since 2007. Putting in a full time course load and full time work is not an easy thing to balance in your life, and I spent all last year and the year before trying to find someone to mentor me on the weekends so I could do my car and hopefully do it myself. Didn't get a single response in my search (even made two threads on FaBO). Now that I'm in the upper years of my University career my courses demand even more time from me, so finding a mentor for body work isn't an option anymore.

I worked 28 days in August 2011. 31 days in August 2012. I work my *** off to afford the middle class lifestyle I enjoy and to afford University so that one day I may not have to work myself to death to live comfortably. I got to where I am today by being realistic about things.

Can I afford a classic car? Definitely. Do I have the money to sink into the car? Yes. Would it be a good decision putting that amount of money into a car that, if I needed to, I couldn't sell for even half what ended up going into? No.

I love my Scamp. My first kiss was in this car. My whole high school life was in this car. It has never stranded me, has never broken the bank as far as repairs are concerned, I've had lots of great road trips and adventures in it but frankly I have two choices for restoring it and both of them cost me my future.

Choice #1: Learn to do the body work myself: That means giving up school or work or both. Not an option.

Choice #2: Pay someone to do it. That means sinking more money into the car than it's worth and possibly breaking the bank doing so. If something, god forbid, happened to my job and I needed to sell the car I'd be ruined.

Maybe I should've been more clear about the situation, but mainly I was looking for people's opinions and thoughts who've been in the same place. Making the rational decision instead of the emotional one. It's hard to separate the two sometimes but the only way to get ahead in life is to do what makes sense. When you have money to burn you can sink whatever you want into your emotional frivolities but frankly that's not an option in my case, at least not until I get to the career I want.

For now I'll do what's right for me in the present to protect my future.
 
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