Match Race ~ 1968 Road Runner '383' vs. 1966 Mercury Cyclone GT '390'

[69 Cuda 440]

Stock vs. Stock

1968 Road Runner '383'
* 727 TorqueFlite ~ 3.55 Gears 'Sure-Grip' ~ F70 x 14"
vs.
1966 Comet Cyclone GT '390'
* C-6 Automatic ~ 3.50 Gears 'Limited-Slip' ~ 7.75 x 14"

An 'fairly even' race off the line, with the Road Runner gaining a
1/2-Car length slight-edge lead.

The Cyclone would stay close to the Road Runner thru 1st-Gear as both pull to 4800 RPM's.

The Cyclone would hit 2nd-Gear at 4800 RPM's while the Road Runner could pull up over 5000 RPM's.

The Road Runner would start to edge away from the Cyclone thru 2nd-Gear.

The Cyclone would hit 3rd-Gear first at 4600 RPM's, as it would be
1-Car length behind.

As the Road Runner peaks at the end of 2nd-Gear, the Mopar would maintain it's slight lead.

The Road Runner bangs 3rd-Gear at 4800 RPM's, and now pulls away from the Cyclone as the 390's Valves start to float out on the big end.

The Road Runner opens up a near 2-Car length lead and hits the Traps at 94.7 MPH with a 14.86 Elapsed Time.

The Cyclone 'lags' 2-Cars behind, and hits the traps at 92.5 MPH and with an ET of 15.05

 

[stroked340]

Me being a relic from that era I can only tell you from memory that driving a new 1970 Swinger 340 dead stock, neither of those vehicles were a problem to the Dart.

You got that right spanked many big blocks with a 340 duster

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Frank-n-Beans

Stock vs. Stock

The Road Runner came thru with Goodyear 'Red Line' F-70 x 14" Tires
* Diameter ... 26.45"
* Width ......... 6.55"

The Comet Cyclone GT 390 came thru with Firestone '500' 7.75 x 14" Tires
* Diameter ... 27.02"
* Width ......... 4.50"

This ain't helping the Comet Cyclone off the line.

 

[Old Man Mopar]

If I wasn't a died-in-the-wool Mopar guy I'd probably have a big Ford wedge with Kaase
cylinder heads.......Something I never would have said in years past. But Chevy? Never!

If you want an "FE lookin" killer for not terribly huge coin, go to the boneyard and
find a 460. Get a set of Jon Kaase's P-51 cylinder heads and a SCAT rotating assembly
for up to 545 cu in.

They even took a stock stroke 0.30" 460 with prepped stock rods and made a staggering
690 hp at 6,700 rpm with 600 lb-ft of torque.

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.co...e-products/188-kaase-p-51-cylinder-heads.html

Here's a complete P-51 engine from Kaase that makes 800 hp and 740 lb ft torque!

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/component/content/article/211-520-ci-kaase-p-51-engine.html

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Larry,

1968 Road Runner 383

The 727-B Torqueflite > 2.45 ~ 1.45 ~ 1.00

Torque Converter > 10 3/4"

Stall rate was rated @ 2100 to 2300 RPM's

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1966 Cyclone GT 390

The C-6 Merc-O-Matic > 2.46 ~ 1.46 ~ 1.00

Torque Converter > 12 5/16"

Stall Rate was rated @ 1660 to 1800 RPM's.

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Gene

These '2' cars were in the same NHRA Class at the end of 1967.

1968 Road Runner 383 = 10.22 Wt/HP
1966 Cyclone GT 390 = 9.89 Wt/HP

B/Stock = 9.50 to 10.59 Wt/HP

When the 1968 Road Runners were introduced in September 1967, they
were classed in B/Stock.

In 1968, the NHRA changed the Stock Class factors;
* D/Stock ....... 9.50 to 9.99 Wt/HP
* E/Stock ....... 10.00 to 10.49 Wt/HP

 

[Abodybomber]

Gene

These '2' cars were in the same NHRA Class at the end of 1967.

1968 Road Runner 383 = 10.22 Wt/HP
1966 Cyclone GT 390 = 9.89 Wt/HP

B/Stock = 9.50 to 10.59 Wt/HP

When the 1968 Road Runners were introduced in September 1967, they
were classed in B/Stock.

In 1968, the NHRA changed the Stock Class factors;
* D/Stock ....... 9.50 to 9.99 Wt/HP
* E/Stock ....... 10.00 to 10.49 Wt/HP

69 Cuda 440: Did you ever build one (a street /strip 390,properly done...), for a customer? (Just curious on your mods,did one a few years back.)

 

[69 Cuda 440]

A-Body-Bomber

Yes, we built more than a few 390 HP Engines back-in-the-day for customers.

Either for 'NHRA Stock Class', or high-performance 'Street Machines'.

390 'FE' Short Block

I know that we always used the Cast Crankshaft {63 lbs.} because it was lighter than the Forged Steel Unit {76 lbs.}

The Cast Crack was never a problem, as long as the internals were balanced.

The 390 needed to get higher RPM's to perform.

Biggest problem for the 'Stockers', was the heavy Connecting-Rods and Pistons preventing the 390 to reach attainable RPM's for power.

If I remember correctly, we used the 'early' C3AE-C Connecting Rods
with 3/8" Bolts. They were the lightest Rods, and came in at around 760 Grams.

We heat-treated them first for improved strength, and then
'shot-peened' them for added stress-relief.

For the Street Performance cars, we used 'Speed-Pro' Forged Pistons, and lightened them up.

For the 'Stocker' Race Engines, it was 'Arias Pistons'.

 

[nothingbutdarts]

If I wasn't a died-in-the-wool Mopar guy I'd probably have a big Ford wedge with Kaase
cylinder heads.......Something I never would have said in years past. But Chevy? Never!

If you want an "FE lookin" killer for not terribly huge coin, go to the boneyard and
find a 460. Get a set of Jon Kaase's P-51 cylinder heads and a SCAT rotating assembly
for up to 545 cu in.

They even took a stock stroke 0.30" 460 with prepped stock rods and made a staggering
690 hp at 6,700 rpm with 600 lb-ft of torque.

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.co...e-products/188-kaase-p-51-cylinder-heads.html

Here's a complete P-51 engine from Kaase that makes 800 hp and 740 lb ft torque!

http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/component/content/article/211-520-ci-kaase-p-51-engine.html

If I wasn't a diehard broke guy all the time, I'de have me a SuperFlow dyno in my garage!!!

Great thread, 69 Cuda 440!

 

[pishta]

Ditch that 390 anchor and drop in a 351C-4v...4.11 rear and hold on!

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Ditch that 390 anchor and drop in a 351C-4v...4.11 rear and hold on!

Easy there 'Pishta'

Back in 1966, a set-up Mercury Cyclone GT 390 could run near
'dead-nuts' on 13.00's in C/Stock.

They were very competitive in C/S and C/SA back then.

 

[fratzog lover]

Wasnt that c6 a 727 copy?

 

[48jeep]

There were some people running 390's in circle track racing locally with some success in the 60's and early 70's but for the most part the big-block Chevy's were the first choice.

 

[69 Cuda 440]

Front-to-Rear Weight Transfer[/I

............................. Shipping Weight .... Front .................. Rear
______________________________________________________

68' Road Runner '383' {3424 lbs.} . 1814 lbs. {52.0%} .. 1610 lbs. {48.0%}

66' Cyclone GT '390' {3315 lbs.} ... 1875 lbs. {56.4%} ... 1440 lbs. {43.6%}

Note; The 1966 Cyclone GT '390' came thru with a fiberglass-hood
with non-functional vent scoops.

Note; A 'standard' steel hood weighed in at 67 lbs. The fiberglass-hood weighed in at 33 lbs.

 

[pishta]

Easy there 'Pishta'

Back in 1966, a set-up Mercury Cyclone GT 390 could run near
'dead-nuts' on 13.00's in C/Stock.

They were very competitive in C/S and C/SA back then.

My Ford buddy in high school had his dads old Cyclone GT 390. Motor was on its last legs so we pulled it and put a 302, then a Cleveland with 2bbl heads and a 4bbl intake. Erson Hi-flow 2 cam and it ran like a scalded dog. He had that car for years and finally found a set of 4v heads. Stroked the 351 to 392 and installed EFI and it was even faster. Sold the motor last year in a 67 Mustang after 28 years. I enjoy these posts.

 

[69 Cuda 440]

1966 Mercury Cyclone GT 390

Cylinder Heads
* Style .......................... Low-Riser
* Casting # ................... C6AE-R
* Intake Port Size .......... 2.34" x 1.34"
* Exhaust Port Size ........ 1.84" x 1.28"
* Combustion Chamber ... 63.60 {Minimum}
* Combustion Chamber ... 67.0 to 70.0 {Factory}
* Intake Valve ............... 2.037"
* Exhaust Valve ............. 1.560"
* Valve Spring {Closed} . #95 lbs.
* Valve Spring {Open} ... #255 lbs.

* Generally good flowing 'street performance' Cylinder Heads.
* Some restriction thru the Exhaust Ports.