Exactly. Some time ago an Obama supporter originally from the U.K. called in to a local talk show to defend socialized medicine based on the U.K. experience. Among his comments was the statement "If you have a life-threatening emergency you can usully get right in to see someone". USUALLY!
McCain/Obama tax plans....
- Thread starter LXguy
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You mean the arguably ficticious surplus that was based in part on revenues that never materialized? You mean the one that was due far more to the huge spending cuts enacted by the republican Congress after 1994 than to anything Clinton did prior to 1994? That surplus?
The war is costing us measurably less than the democrat's insistance that we remain almost totally dependent on foreign oil.
Absolutely correct on all counts. Great post.
That might make sense if tax rates were the only thing that had an effect on the economy.
They believe that because they have taken in everything he has said, not just his recent "tax plan, and they know he can not be trusted.
Oops, wrong. The expense of war does not begin with the first shot. It begins far earlier with the required build-up.
GDP at the expense of huge debt by consumers isn't REAL growth... Debt doesn't equal wealth as many in this country tend to believe.
BTW, the GDP, inflation and unemployment numbers are cooked worse than Enron could ever imagine.
Those bail outs of the financial institutions because the fed was asleep at the wheel are crushing us.
Neither of these steaming pile of shyite can be trusted. Just like when I was out banging just about any hot chick that moved, I'll tell em anything they wanted to hear to get in their pants...
BTW, the GDP, inflation and unemployment numbers are cooked worse than Enron could ever imagine.
Those bail outs of the financial institutions because the fed was asleep at the wheel are crushing us.
Neither of these steaming pile of shyite can be trusted. Just like when I was out banging just about any hot chick that moved, I'll tell em anything they wanted to hear to get in their pants...
What right wing? The right wing hasn't been in control since the 90s. The republicans in Congress since 2000 have been spending on a level equal to the liberals. There is nothing "right wing" about them at all. That is one of the reasons that 25% of the republican base stayed home during the 2006 elections.
HAHAHA. How true. Lately, the two parties have been nothing more than opposite sides of the same crooked fence. The recent bailouts were absolutely necessary. All of the major lenders are holding Freddiemac and Fanniemae paper and if they were allowed to fail the resulting economic chaos would be on a scale never before seen. As someone in the mortgage business I can attest to some of the issues you are not hearing in the media. No small share of the blame for the mortgage meltdown lies with the Clinton administration. In the 90's, the democrats (and plenty of liberal republicans as well) decided it wasn't fair that some americans could not get home financing. They accused lenders of being biased. They pressured lenders to relax their qualifications for home loans. That bird has now come home to roost. It is also due to lenders stretching the limits of qualifying and in some cases actually falsifying qualifying documents and lying to borrowers about the loan they were getting into. I can't even estimate how many customers I have had who did not know they had an adjustable mortgage until it adjusted.
And the W admin gets plenty of blame for the homeownership push as well. When the dope greenspan (why he's held in high regard is beyond me) is testifying that people should run out and get ARM loans when rates are at or near historic lows, the drinking water just got fouled with a Baby Ruth. :-D
Plenty of blame to go around for the mortgage/housing mess, from realtors (buy now or be priced out forever), Mort Brokers (false docs), lenders (insane reductions in qualifying/teaser rate), wall street (flat out greed for the paper), rating agencies (poor underwriting/rating), greed was rampant and essentially blew up the economy. VERY few had the sense to say this isn't right, yet those voices were ignored... home appraisers before congress in 2001-2002 era. Nobody cared as long as the money was flowing. Pretty sad.
My favorite was the strawberry picker in NoCal making 38K a year buying a 700K home... yeah that works!
FISHBREATH
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The roots of the Bush 1 recession were actually growing with the Saddam Hussein invasion of Kuwait. Oil markets went crazy, pushing up the cost of everything made from petroleum. That budget was actually being argued in Congress for many months prior to it being passed. As an investor, you would have had to been blind to not see the handwriting on the wall. Businesses began holding off spending money for expansion and began laying off employees long before that budget was passed. If you run a business with a small profit margin and you see a big tax increase coming down the pike and you see prices rising, you must cut operating expenses or die on the vine.
Regarding the high tax rates throughout the 20th Century: the income tax was enacted to take money from the "very rich," generally the business moguls, the multi-millionaires of the day. There were numerous legal deductions that went along with the tax. However, as the income tax was increased to the point of capturing the middle class by WW II, the deductions remained. JFK and Reagan both reduced the marginal tax rates on income. JFKs economic expansion was wiped out by spending for the Vietnam War and by the Great Society socialist spending splurge that gave us "stagflation" for 15 years. Reagan ended the "stagflation" by getting the economy roaring by cutting taxes and the Fed by killing inflation. The money that was saved by consumers and business as result was put into business growth and investment. Unfortunately, Congress began to rape the Golden Calf beginning in the late 1980s. That domestic spending splurge began having a detrimental effect on the economy by the end of the decade.
LXguy
Well-Known Member
Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait on August 2nd 1990. The recession had already started by then.
Again, the Iraqi invasion happened in August, after the recession had already started. Operation Desert Shield was the required build-up. We were not building-up before the Iraqi army invaded.
cuda65vpt
cuda65vpt
If either one of them actually decrease our taxes, I'll be simply astonished.
pastortom1
Well-Known Member
Concerning the quote you gave from me above,Yeah, I always post BS on this site. (!) I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else here.......Any one of you guys can turn on the analysts and listen carefully, then decipher the truth, or you can choose to be a useful idiot in the hands of an extremely biased and left-leaning socialist media machine.........I need not mention all the names, dates and air times of where I get my information upon which I base a statement, either for you or anyone else....I don't listen to talk radio either.......I'm a tad too busy for it.......but thanks for the liberally-slanted slam anyway.
........If you need to have all the particulars, quotes and figures on every subject and statement made here, perhaps you'd be better suited for your own TV show rather than this type of website.
You don't tax to death the hand that provides the job.......if you do, you'll be OUT of one. Pretty simple. My advice to the leftists in this nation is to be very careful, lest your little house of cards blows away in the winds of "change".
LXguy
Well-Known Member
How can we turn on "the analysts" when you won't provide us even one name or source? Who are they? The Men In Black?
LXguy
Well-Known Member
Ditto: Also, if they end up not increasing taxes, I'll be astonished.
Tax issues = smokescreen
There are MUCH bigger issues.
There are MUCH bigger issues.
pastortom1
Well-Known Member
Yep..........and leftist liberal smoke & spin is one of them.
I guess some people don't know of any sources for their information & stats without me giving them some of my own.
Wait..........is recess over already? (sorry...I was having a flashback....I was reminded of a snooty 5th Grader I used to know.... )
I guess some people don't know of any sources for their information & stats without me giving them some of my own.
Wait..........is recess over already? (sorry...I was having a flashback....I was reminded of a snooty 5th Grader I used to know.... )
It's a smokescreen from both sides...
I think both major party candidates are complete douches.
Like I've said before, if satan was the party candidate for either side, some would vote that way because it's the party ticket.
I think both major party candidates are complete douches.
Like I've said before, if satan was the party candidate for either side, some would vote that way because it's the party ticket.
LXguy
Well-Known Member
Well, I wouldn't want to listen to the wrong analysts by mistake and become a tool of the vast left wing conspiracy. :angry7:
Not being able to back up your arguments with any evidence or even a source reminds me of every fifth grader I ever knew.
If requiring evidence *before* I make my mind up about something makes me snooty, then so be it.
pastortom1
Well-Known Member
Your mind, my friend, is already made up.
And not "being able" to back up an argument versus not spending my time on such nonsense when you are well able to know the facts all by your self is more the issue here.
You know who the reputable media analysts are just as well as I do....(and I listen to all sides of an argument, not just the ones that might pass a litmus test). With your intellect, I need not point them out to you......and any other member of this site can do the very same thing.
This also reminds me of the evolutionists not being able to deal with cold hard facts such as polystrate fossils, which negate their theory on the geologic column. Some people just can't see the handwriting on the wall.
If you think biting the hand that feeds you is good economic sense and will lead to greater employment and strong economic growth, then so be it. That's what Obama's tax plan does......and viciously so.
It's a redistribution of wealth.........what amounts to a Socialist philosophy.........and that's what it is........Socialism.
And not "being able" to back up an argument versus not spending my time on such nonsense when you are well able to know the facts all by your self is more the issue here.
You know who the reputable media analysts are just as well as I do....(and I listen to all sides of an argument, not just the ones that might pass a litmus test). With your intellect, I need not point them out to you......and any other member of this site can do the very same thing.
This also reminds me of the evolutionists not being able to deal with cold hard facts such as polystrate fossils, which negate their theory on the geologic column. Some people just can't see the handwriting on the wall.
If you think biting the hand that feeds you is good economic sense and will lead to greater employment and strong economic growth, then so be it. That's what Obama's tax plan does......and viciously so.
It's a redistribution of wealth.........what amounts to a Socialist philosophy.........and that's what it is........Socialism.
And what exactly is the current administration doing with the financial markets?
Socialism at it's finest brought to you by the republican party and it's appointed representatives.
They are different from the Dems, how? Other than the groups they try to pander.
pastortom1
Well-Known Member
Come on......The President and his Administration does not in any way shape or form run the financial markets.....they can have an effect, just like the do nothing Congress, but they don't run it......These poor guys get blamed for everything.
The pandering you mention is a real problem on both sides, and needs to be changed.......but it's changed on a one to one basis......you cannot legislate people into submission to what's right......they'll always find a way to go around the stop sign, or take a rolling stop. No different on either side of the aisle.
Socialism is nearly an exact opposite of the basis of a Republic, which the US is......It's not a democracy.......It's a Republic, with a democratic voting process. Socialism dictates what is best for the people, and robs from the rich to give to the poor (to oversimplify it to the extreme).......but it miserably fails in each and every national model throughout history. The Republican party certainly does not represent Socialism. It's philosophy is rather based on the work ethic......that is, if a man does not work, he does not eat.......then the added measure of providing for those who cannot provide for themselves. BUT, it demands work, not handouts.......and hard work is rewarded, not chastised.
The modern Democratic model is Socialism from end to end, and Obama's tax plan brings it clearly into focus. Now mix Black Liberation Theology with Socialist political philosophy, and you have a sure and certain formula for economic and social disaster in the United States.
(Unless he changes his mind again.......He does do that quite regularly........)
I'll say it again.........They want to take your guns, crush your old cars (or sentence them to a trailer), tell you what Doctor to go to and what kind of coverage you'll have, and give control of our military over to the United Nations............just plain facts...........Your kids too, did I fail to mention? You're not smart enough to raise them properly....they want "state" control (Have you read Hillary's book and listened to her speeches on the subject?)......not to mention their overwhelming desire to expunge God from every public arena, and from being mentioned in studies of our nations history. This is Socialism........One small step away from Communism.
If that's what you really want for America, your kids and your grand kids, then go and vote accordingly. Doc
Remember all those speech from W about wanting people to own there homes??? I DO!
The bailouts are straight socialism brought to you by Paulsen and the treasury department via legislation from congress and signed by W. Yes he's responsible because he could have vetoed it and DIDN'T. Socializing losses to the masses is exactly what they are doing. The pieces that are profitable will be privatized and the bagholders, i.e. US taxpayers will be left holding the bag of dogshit at the end of the day.
Had the Fed actually done there job, rather than allow lax lending standards and a free money policy we wouldn't be in the mess we are today. Had they done there job which would have meant a shorter period of pain when the real recession should have occurred, rather than dump money willy nilly and create huge comsumer debt, we'd be in MUCH better shape now. The pain that is occurring and will continue to occur is because the idiots, in this admin, fed and congress, messed with the economic cycles that naturally occur. When you delay those cycles, the magnitude of the shock is much worse... here we are today.
How's that economic stimulus payment working out... Thought so!
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