McCain/Obama tax plans....

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LXguy

LXguy

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Hey All:

Seems like there is a lot of disinformation around about Obama and McCains tax plans.

Here's a diagram that outlines various tax increases/decreases based on what the candidates themselves have stated. The results may surprise you.

taxes.gif


Note the caption: Bottom three groups = 60% of taxpayers.

Being a fiscal conservative, I don't believe that anyone should get a tax break during a war, or when the government is running an annual 800 billion dollar deficit, but whatever.

Steve
 
Posting objective reality doesn't = bias.

Lemme see if I can dig that up.
 
Here's a different source with the same (or at least very similar) numbers.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm

Here's a link that looks at the numbers a different way with similar results. The posted graph in this link is from the Wall Street Journal.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/06/wsj-the-mccain.html

wsj_tax_chart.gif


Here's another without a graph, but comes up with the same numbers.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/156909/page/2

I'm having difficulty finding the source of this particular graph, but am finding a lot of corroboration for it. I'll keep digging.
 
LXguy said:
Hey All:

Seems like there is a lot of disinformation around about Obama and McCains tax plans.

Here's a diagram that outlines various tax increases/decreases based on what the candidates themselves have stated. The results may surprise you.
Click to expand...


The PROBLEM is in you first statement: "....based on what the candidates themselves have stated....." I think it has been proven time and time again that OBAMA talks on both sides of the fence AND that tomorrow he may be saying the exact opposite what he said the day before OR based on what audience he has is how he feels.....

Yesterday he was in Lebanon, VA and told them he was PRO-Gun! I could not believe it......
 
Haney said:
The PROBLEM is in you first statement: "....based on what the candidates themselves have stated....." I think it has been proven time and time again that OBAMA talks on both sides of the fence AND that tomorrow he may be saying the exact opposite what he said the day before OR based on what audience he has is how he feels.....

Yesterday he was in Lebanon, VA and told them he was PRO-Gun! I could not believe it......
Click to expand...

OK: Perhaps I should have used the term "published tax proposals" instead.

To me the most important thing is the utter lack of the oft-repeated tax increase on working families that McCain keeps talking about.
 
Bottom line is it does not matter what either guy says he is going to do. Unless he can get congress to stop spending like drunken sailors on shore leave, it is all blowing smoke in the wind. I planned on being debt free by now but my wife had other ideas. Same thing with being President...
 
challengergary said:
Bottom line is it does not matter what either guy says he is going to do. Unless he can get congress to stop spending like drunken sailors on shore leave, it is all blowing smoke in the wind. I planned on being debt free by now but my wife had other ideas. Same thing with being President...
Click to expand...


LMAO! I like that one. Heres to drunken sailors:drinkers:
 
Pro Gun in Va.? Don't take em long to figure out how to tell ya what you want to hear.....wheather they are for it or not.
 
It's hard to present any info in the political atmosphere of
todays world without being called out as biased.
The intent is to share knowledge so you can make an
informed decission on the canidates plans for you and
your families future.
Look past the present day troubles into the future say 8 years
and see what decisions made today will yield in 10 years.
The Nafta deal is a good example, weather you agree or disagree
with its results, it shows the impact of a decision and its effects.
Instead of pointing fingers remmember this:

An uninformed person is a subject
An informed person is a citizen
 
70dartks said:
...
Click to expand...


What happend to your post. Did you think it would offend some one? LOL
when I was in the Navy I was stationed at Norfolk VA. I did not see any gun toting toothless hillbillys walking around. I did have a 300 lb lady walk up to me and ask if I had any "hard" I said what is that? She said its crack. I said no I am fresh out sorry. But that could of happened any where not just VA.
Has nothing to do with this thread I know. It is just a good story.

Now I live in socal and go out back with my gun and get me some quail every now and then.
 
LXguy said:
Hey All:

Seems like there is a lot of disinformation around about Obama and McCains tax plans.

Here's a diagram that outlines various tax increases/decreases based on what the candidates themselves have stated. The results may surprise you.



Note the caption: Bottom three groups = 60% of taxpayers.

Being a fiscal conservative, I don't believe that anyone should get a tax break during a war, or when the government is running an annual 800 billion dollar deficit, but whatever.

Steve
Click to expand...
That fails to address one very important aspect of who Obama's tax increases hit and how hard. His increases will be murder on businesses, both large and small, and those increases in their expenses will be passed on directly to the consumer, in effect greatly increasing the tax on them far beyond the direct effect on their tax bracket. It will greatly reduce the amount of money comsumers have put into the economy. It will also slam investors which will also have a substantial negative effect on the economy. It is a recipe for resession, as major tax increases always are.
 
LXguy said:
Being a fiscal conservative, I don't believe that anyone should get a tax break during a war, or when the government is running an annual 800 billion dollar deficit, but whatever.

Steve
Click to expand...
Also being a fiscal conservative, and being familiar with the effect on revenue to the government (a major increase) that tax reductions have had every time they have been enacted, including those of Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush, I would say that in time of war while the deficit is so huge would be one of the best times to reduce taxes. Of course, as a fiscal conservative, I think that anytime is a great time to reduce taxes. We just have to make sure that Congress doesn't look at all that new revenue and think it is theirs to spend.
 
I think that if 99% of Americans have more spending money in their pockets, businesses and business owners will probably do just fine.

And those top 1% will still be paying less than they did under Clinton.

The only thing the chart fails to address is exactly where McCain gets his information that Obama will "raise taxes on working families, and the middle class", when in fact, Obama is giving bigger tax breaks to those people than McCain is.
 
2shelbys said:
Also being a fiscal conservative, and being familiar with the effect on revenue to the government (a major increase) that tax reductions have had every time they have been enacted, including those of Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush, I would say that in time of war while the deficit is so huge would be one of the best times to reduce taxes. Of course, as a fiscal conservative, I think that anytime is a great time to reduce taxes. We just have to make sure that Congress doesn't look at all that new revenue and think it is theirs to spend.
Click to expand...

Fiscal conservatives don't typically believe that during times of peak spending (aka war) that government revenues should be cut. Deficit spending bad.

Econ 101: You can't have guns and butter.

None of those Presidents were cutting taxes during wartime. Reagan and Bush also had MASSIVE increases in government spending (that greatly outstripped revenue, increased or not.)

The oft-repeated Republican theory about the Laffer curve is provably false, but falls outside the scope of this thread.

 
LXguy said:
I think that if 99% of Americans have more spending money in their pockets, businesses and business owners will probably do just fine.

And those top 1% will still be paying less than they did under Clinton.

The only thing the chart fails to address is exactly where McCain gets his information that Obama will "raise taxes on working families, and the middle class", when in fact, Obama is giving bigger tax breaks to those people than McCain is.
Click to expand...
You could not be more wrong about that. First, the huge increase in business expense could not be even dented by the modest decrease in taxes on the lower income levels and second, the notion that "99% of Americans will have more spending money" is false. The increase in their expenses passed on by business will more than wipe out their modest tax decrease. The big decreases to the lowest levels amount to nothing. A 3% - 5% decrease in taxes on someone who pays almost no taxes is a wash. A look through history makes it very clear. Tax increases always slam the economy and across-the-board tax decreases always bolster it. Every time, no room for argument.
 
LXguy said:
Fiscal conservatives don't typically believe that during times of peak spending (aka war) that government revenues should be cut.
Click to expand...
And that is the major fault in your argument. Tax reductions always INCREASE revenue to the government. They do not decrease it. You just have to make sure Congress doesn't see all that new revenue as theirs to spend.
 
2SHELBYS - You're just being too darn logical. Clearly you don't know how to pander for votes like a politician. :toothy10:

Bottom line - we'll all get it in the end :bootysha:
 
That chart also must reflect what Obama is saying NOW. At various times in the past 18 months his increases have hit at $60,000, $125,000, $150,000, and $200,000 income levels. Maybe they will finally become tax decreases as his poll numbers continue to plummet.
 
Another unfortunate result of the Left increasing taxes on "the rich" is using the term "the rich", itself. This includes the majority of small business owners who file income taxes as individuals. These people are the largest employers in the country. They typically work 60-80 hours per week. Because they file taxes as individuals and are not incorporated, their business income is their personal income; therefore, they fall into the $200,000+ per year income category. Hose job. They might be living on $75,000 per year, but the Left looks at them as being "rich."
 
politicians, will always say what they think people want to hear, before an election, and do what is best for themselves, after.
Do like in the movie "Brewsters Millions" and vote for "NONE OF THE ABOVE". :cheers:
 
FISHBREATH said:
Another unfortunate result of the Left increasing taxes on "the rich" is using the term "the rich", itself. This includes the majority of small business owners who file income taxes as individuals. These people are the largest employers in the country. They typically work 60-80 hours per week. Because they file taxes as individuals and are not incorporated, their business income is their personal income; therefore, they fall into the $200,000+ per year income category. Hose job. They might be living on $75,000 per year, but the Left looks at them as being "rich."
Click to expand...


Yep, my dad is a small buisness owner. he is allways showing me the tax's he has to pay. lets just say it is a lot for a small town feed store. and don't get me started on taxes for owning/operating a semi truck. Every time I turn around they got a new tax or fee to pay. don't want pay it now problem all you have to do is park the truck:angry7: With all the taxes people have to pay I just cant see how the state/contry is broke all the time.
 
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