Metal particles in A999 transmission

[Jax]

Dropped my JVX A999 trasmission, and found these metal particles.

What can be going on inside the transmission? The metal pieces are kind of fine and sharp... can they be pieces of the torque converte blades?

Fyi.. my trans has a trans brake and manual valve body

 

[Desoto291hemi]

That large piece looks like a piece of a snap ring from a clutch pack

 

[Jax]

Any mayor concerns? The trans is running fine...

 

[Desoto291hemi]

Not on my end

I’m assuming it’s a drag transmission since it has a trans brake
It will let you know soon enough
If will probably last until your next overhaul

Tommy

 

[rmchrgr]

There should be no pieces/chunks of anything in the pan, period. The converter is outside the transmission. If you had broken parts in the converter it would be pretty difficult to drive the car.

The debris that looks like sand is likely friction material. On older units there will always be some of that in the pan as the frictions wear but if you have a broken ring you might be getting uneven/excessive wear.

Like said above it looks like the shards could be part of a snap ring. The snap rings provide the proper clearance for the frictions and hold them in place in the drum. If you have a broken one it’s only a matter of time before you lose gears. The frictions will wear out and won’t grab.

Why do you have the pan off?

Also, how do you drive the car?

 

[toolmanmike]

Thanks to @rmchrgr for a informative rundown on the A999 transmission. I learned something today. How to identify a non lockup A999 transmission with pics!

 

[rmchrgr]

Thanks to @rmchrgr for a informative rundown on the A999 transmission. I learned something today. How to identify a non lockup A999 transmission with pics!

You're welcome.

 

[Jax]

There should be no pieces/chunks of anything in the pan, period. The converter is outside the transmission. If you had broken parts in the converter it would be pretty difficult to drive the car.

The debris that looks like sand is likely friction material. On older units there will always be some of that in the pan as the frictions wear but if you have a broken ring you might be getting uneven/excessive wear.

Like said above it looks like the shards could be part of a snap ring. The snap rings provide the proper clearance for the frictions and hold them in place in the drum. If you have a broken one it’s only a matter of time before you lose gears. The frictions will wear out and won’t grab.

Why do you have the pan off?

Also, how do you drive the car?

The pan is of to adjust the rear band as this was never done, and to change the trans filter.

The transmission is a race trans build by JVX, with a manual valve body... leaving the line on 2 step.

Haven't had any issues so far.

 

[Syleng1]

I’m not a palm reader but your life line and where it intersects with your heart line is telling me you may be pulling that transmission apart very soon…. Or you will live to be like 100.
Sorry I failed that portion of the on line class.

 

[rmchrgr]

I agree you'll probably need to go through that unit. Again, there should be no metal pieces in the pan. Clutch material, yes but chunks of stuff, no. If you're a racer you'll need to learn how to rebuild it anyway so might as well start now. Though this is an extreme example I've seen guys do it on an open trailer between rounds. They are fairly simple transmissions. They are not hard to R&R especially if you have a lift and trans jack. On the floor with jack stands is certainly more of a hassle but it's the same operation.

Either way, have you pulled the valve body off to inspect the internal parts? If not, you should. While the V.B. is off do a quick pressure check to make sure the clutch packs and bands are applying properly. There should be a definite mechanical sound, like a dull clack.

The clip below shows how to air-check the unit on the bench but it will give you an idea of what you're looking for when checking proper operation.

 

[TrailBeast]

Dropped my JVX A999 trasmission, and found these metal particles.

What can be going on inside the transmission? The metal pieces are kind of fine and sharp... can they be pieces of the torque converte blades?

Fyi.. my trans has a trans brake and manual valve body

View attachment 1716444682

View attachment 1716444683

A small amount of metal in a toughly used trans is fairly normal due to bushings flaking.
What you don’t want is pieces that a magnet picks up.
Some don’t think much about the converter though.
Anything that can go through the filter and pump also gets pumped through the converter.
Since the converter spins like it does it throws any particles to the outside packing it there.

If that large piece is really thin, it’s probably a flake off a bushing.
If a magnet doesn’t pick it up, then it’s definitely bushing.
Usually not disastrous, but a forewarning.
(Usually)

So if a magnet picks up chunks you have a real immediate problem.
If not, then not so much.

 

[Jax]

Hi all.
Thanks for the information amd feeback.
Yes, I am a racer, however not an expert on transmission. But, actually last night I was having this conversation with my friend who is a mechanic, that we neet to start doing some learning on these units.

I am taking the route to further inspect. So basically, will have to drop the trans.

Besides operation of the clucth packs, what about the sprag? Should I do visual inspection on other parts?

I have some handy manuals specifically for the Torqueflites that will be used from now on

 

[rmchrgr]

So if a magnet picks up chunks you have a real immediate problem.

The title of the thread says "metal particles" in the pan...

I've personally never heard of any bushings "flaking off". Which ones are you referring to? Only bushings I know are the grooved, copper lined cylindrical ones that are driven into certain bores where the shafts ride. They can get worn over time but the material wouldn't flake off. Usually they last the life of the trans if properly maintained.

Besides operation of the clucth packs, what about the sprag?

The "sprag" or overrunning clutch is a non-wear item. If you broke it, you wouldn't have any gears and there would be a lot more debris in the pan. If you broke the sprag you'd want to inspect the case for damage and probably the rear diff as well. If the case is damaged from a broken sprag it's basically junk.

Should I do visual inspection on other parts?

If you're taking the unit out just take the whole thing apart and look for obvious problems. Shards of metal don't just happen because of normal wear, something is definitely broken. Maybe you will be lucky and it will only be one thing.

If you plan to rebuild the trans you will need some specific tools for the job so make sure you have them on hand before you start. A short list besides regular tools and compressed air includes (preferably) a metal table with a drain, although it's not a necessity it makes life easier a fixture to hold the case, snap-ring pliers, feeler gauges/micrometers, picks, bushing drivers, a servo spring and clutch piston compressor and an inch-pound torque wrench to set the front band adjustment. You can make a slide hammer with threaded rod, small sections of pipe and nuts/washers to act as stops to get the pump off. Hopefully someone on the Island has what you need!

 

[Jax]

I would like to just take a look at the clutch pack and push some air to verify movement as you described.

Can I lower the valve body while in the vehicle without any small pieces of parts falling of?

 

[Jax]

Just as additional information, the transmission has approximately 350 quater mile passes...

 

[rmchrgr]

Can I lower the valve body while in the vehicle without any small pieces of parts falling of?

Yeah. Only thing besides the bolts holding it to the case is the park gear rod. The rod is an interference fit with the parking pawl and pulls out with the v.b. It's held on to the v.b. with an e clip. You may have to rotate the output shaft to get it out if it's stuck.

The park rod can be a bit tricky to re-install. Again, you may have to rotate the tail shaft until it's in the right spot. Before re-installing it, unclip it from the valve body and install it by itself so you can feel it click in to the right spot on the park pawl. Take it out again then re-attach it to the v.b and install the same way with the v.b. on. Sometimes you have to twist the v.b. a bit to get it to seat in the right spot but don't force it.

You really can't do much without taking the valve body out.

Just as additional information, the transmission has approximately 350 quater mile passes...

That's a decent amount of runs, probably time for a re-fresh anyway. Don't want to spend your money but might consider at least replacing the wear parts like the seals, clutches and frictions in addition to whatever is broken.

What did the fluid look like - clear red or dark brown/burned smell?

 

[Jax]

The fluid looked dark red, going to little brown. No smell of burned oil

 

[rmchrgr]

So no burned fluid and 350 passes so it's probably OK for the most part but it's lucky that you took the pan off when you did. I don't know when your season ends but you'd be wise to just pull it out and get it rebuilt for the next 350 licks. It's not a big deal to do if you can get the parts and have the tools.

No one wants to confront a rebuild but putting it back together as-is will likely end up costing you more in the end.

 

[TrailBeast]

Any bushing with soft material can flake.
You probably know cam bearings sometimes do.
Same thing.

My point was if a magnet can pick it up, it’s usually fairly serious.
If it’s bushing material then not usually as serious.
If I remember correctly one of the questions in the ATRA certification testing referred to that.

The title of the thread says "metal particles" in the pan...

I've personally never heard of any bushings "flaking off". Which ones are you referring to? Only bushings I know are the grooved, copper lined cylindrical ones that are driven into certain bores where the shafts ride. They can get worn over time but the material wouldn't flake off. Usually they last the life of the trans if properly maintained.

 

[Jax]

So no burned fluid and 350 passes so it's probably OK for the most part but it's lucky that you took the pan off when you did. I don't know when your season ends but you'd be wise to just pull it out and get it rebuilt for the next 350 licks. It's not a big deal to do if you can get the parts and have the tools.

No one wants to confront a rebuild but putting it back together as-is will likely end up costing you more in the end.

Indeed. During but the next rebuild my intention is to add billet drums.

Will be looking forward to either contact JVX or CRT for their products.

I have noticed Andrews transmissions has some good products and great service as well