famous bob
mopar misfit
^^^I might have missed it , but what engine combo in ur 434 ??
I like me some big small blocks !!
My 422 smallblock build
- Thread starter SSG_Karg
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^^^I might have missed it , but what engine combo in ur 434 ??
I like me some big small blocks !!
justinp61
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R1 block, 4.125" Bloomer crank. 4.090" bore, ported Indy 360-1 heads and Indy intake, Comp solid roller 263/271 @ .050", .711/.719" at the retainers after lash with T&D 1.7 rockers, 11.2-1 runs on pump 93. It's a hoot to drive.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
Duane
Well-Known Member
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
Got the cam slid in and slapped on the degree wheel to have a look see.
Howards cam card says 108 lobe separation and 104 I/C. I installed “straight up”, or dot to dot for the politically correct crowd, and came up with 107.5*. Most likely the lost half degree is in my measuring. I’m not sure if I want to leave it alone or advance it 2* and recheck. My timing set has provisions to adjust in increments of 2* so not a big deal. Just not sure it is even warranted.
This thing should already make stupid power down low and the static compression is measuring at 10.75-1 with a Mr. G 1128g or 10.55 with the felpro 1008. So not sure I would even want to advance it any.
Thoughts?
Howards cam card says 108 lobe separation and 104 I/C. I installed “straight up”, or dot to dot for the politically correct crowd, and came up with 107.5*. Most likely the lost half degree is in my measuring. I’m not sure if I want to leave it alone or advance it 2* and recheck. My timing set has provisions to adjust in increments of 2* so not a big deal. Just not sure it is even warranted.
This thing should already make stupid power down low and the static compression is measuring at 10.75-1 with a Mr. G 1128g or 10.55 with the felpro 1008. So not sure I would even want to advance it any.
Thoughts?
Leaving it straight up will reduce your dynamic CR. If you're right on the limit for pump gas, that might be the right call.
I'm actually considering doing exactly the same thing on my build, installing it straight up instead of advanced 4deg like the card says, for exactly that reason. Bumping around 10.9 with an .027 cometic and the Pistons .010 in the hole.
I'm actually considering doing exactly the same thing on my build, installing it straight up instead of advanced 4deg like the card says, for exactly that reason. Bumping around 10.9 with an .027 cometic and the Pistons .010 in the hole.
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
What calculator is that?
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
So I couldn’t leave well enough alone and decided to advance this thing and rerun the numbers.
I moved the crank gear to the 2* advanced slot and reinstalled everything. This time I came up with 104* I/C which is what Howards wants it in at. I wish it would have fallen somewhere between the dot to dot timing and the 2* advanced timing but I’m not interested in anymore fooling around with offset keys and what not just for a 2* swing. So, pretty sure I’m gonna leave it in @ 104 and continue on.
I moved the crank gear to the 2* advanced slot and reinstalled everything. This time I came up with 104* I/C which is what Howards wants it in at. I wish it would have fallen somewhere between the dot to dot timing and the 2* advanced timing but I’m not interested in anymore fooling around with offset keys and what not just for a 2* swing. So, pretty sure I’m gonna leave it in @ 104 and continue on.
Duane
Well-Known Member
Re-check piston to valve now cause it will have changed.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
SSG is that 107 and 104 measured as the lobe peak or as halfway between the seat timing given "for timing only" on the card
there is a reason those numbers are there?
TYPO SORRY
see what You get working off the seat timing
does 104 give you the .050 seat timing on the card
doing good SSG
there is a reason those numbers are there?
TYPO SORRY
see what You get working off the seat timing
does 104 give you the .050 seat timing on the card
doing good SSG
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SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
Not sure where you got the 197 at?
The 104 was found by using the .050” before and after max lobe lift, known as the intake centerline method.
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Can you post the cam numbers one more time? I want to run them through a program so I can see what the lobes look like.
I’m thinking I ran them before and to get the cam straight up it needed to go in at 106 ICL but I may be thinking of a different cam.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
typo 197=107 damn microkeyboards
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
Mechanical Roller Camshaft; 1964 - 2003 Chrysler 273, 340, 360 2800 to 6800 Howards Cams 712113-08 | Howards Cams
I installed it dot to dot and came up with 107.5 ICL. Moved it to the 2* advanced notch on the crank sprocket and came up with 104 ICL. Kinda wish it would have fallen somewhere in between but its probably splitting hairs. Howards wants it in at 104 so I left it there. The opening and closing events were about 1.5* off from the cam card.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Ok, ran your numbers. Your cam is ground with 2 degrees advance in it. Why they want it 4 ahead I can’t say, but if it was me, I’d install it on a 106 ICL and let it dig.
FWIW, dot to dot doesn’t mean straight up. The cam key can be off, the crank key can be off, the key way in the cam and crank gear can be off, or some or all or none of that.
The mgispeedware.com cam program will show you where the ICL should be for an actual straight up install, and for your cam, that is a 106 ICL.
I’ll stay out of it because I’m not a cam expert but if it was mine it was going in exactly where you put it 104.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Then you’d be going against the advice of Billy Godbold himself. He is very clear where he wants any performance cam installed. All you have to do is read it for yourself.
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
You may have to try and explain it to me in layman’s terms because I do not speak much “camese”. How would putting it in at 106 be better than putting it in at 104? More power in the upper rpms? Better idle quality? I don’t understand.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
You need to find and read the entire article where Godbold outlines why Comp can grind everything on a de facto LSA and then advocate for installing everything 4 degrees advanced from the ICL and then on the other hand, do just the opposite when you talk about a performance engine. I hardly consider your build a milquetoast build. I consider it a performance build.
In that case, you would center the overlap triangle for best performance. That is overall power output, across the entire RPM range.
I ran your cam numbers, and to center the overlap triangle you need to install your cam on a 106 ICL, if you want maximum performance.
If you are trying to crutch some part of the build (poor headers, wrong converter, not enough gear etc.) then you want to advance the cam. It damn sure isn’t for better performance.
I mean...think about it...how is every cam always installed 4 degrees ahead? It doesn’t make sense, especially if you have done your due diligence in putting your engine/chassis package together. It’s like the de facto 110 LSA. It’s a best acceptable LSA for stuff that isn’t well thought out.
BTW...with the mgispeedware.com cam program, you can easily calculate how much actual advance is ground into your cam, and it is NOT 4 degrees. It’s only 2 degrees. So why install it 4 degrees ahead?
j par
Well-hung Member
Never heard of um..
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
If you would happen to find a link to that article please post it here. I’d be interested in reading it.
He’s the guy that put M in M&M’s
SSG_Karg
Enhanced member
I tried the mgispeedware calculator and all it tells me is exactly what my cam card tells me. I tried putting in 106 as ICL and I can’t see any difference in the percentage numbers. Guess I’m not as smart as the calculator.
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