My take on the oiling system crossover tube for the small block

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. Duane

    Duane Well-Known Member

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    Never done on a Mopar but yes that is standard Ls oiling method. Gm theory to feed a second supply on the major thrust side of the bearings. To me full groove does the same thing
    Unless you believe that the extra bearing surface is required.
     
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    • Duane

      Duane Well-Known Member

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      I posted pics from a show where they were adding that oil groove to older chev block under the bearing shells.
      They used an old grooved bearing she'll as a fixture and a die grinder to add the groove to the block and drilled extra oil holes in the bearings.
       
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      • rumblefish360

        rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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        Full groove seems to do the trick right well.
         
      • anitrowarrior9

        anitrowarrior9 Active Member

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        Thank you all for the replies. I wasn't sure if this could help or not.
         
      • Jadaharabi

        Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        You can elongate that hole in the bearing to where it takes advantage of the hole in the block.
         
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        • Duane

          Duane Well-Known Member

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          Agre
          Agreed but most rebuilds are on a block with significant mileage and the lifter bores would have some wear.
           
        • Jadaharabi

          Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          .
          Have you or are you going to try this?
           
        • Jadaharabi

          Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          .

          c system drawing.jpg

          headtap.JPG

          thumbnail (1).png
           
          Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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          • Jadaharabi

            Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Crossover pg 12.jpg



            rt k front passage.jpg


            12 k  intent - Copy.jpg

            20181120_124921.jpg

            20181120_124927.jpg
             
          • Jadaharabi

            Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            13c lside.jpg
             
          • Jadaharabi

            Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            13 RS discp.jpg


            14 K ending.jpg
             
          • anitrowarrior9

            anitrowarrior9 Active Member

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            I don't think I will be. I've done all of the guitar Jones mods, tubed the block, and gave it full time rocker oiling. All of that is probably way overkill for my build anyway. I just thought it was interesting and thought I'd get some opinions on it here.
             
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            • Wyrmrider

              Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              I've grooved the block saddle from the oil feed to the parting line then side fed the mains where the additional area at the cap/ block split is
               
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              • Jadaharabi

                Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                .
                How did that work out for tou?
                Did you use a sealer inbetween the block and cap? Studs or bolts?
                 
              • yellow rose

                yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                I can say without even blinking that a crossover tube is worthless. It does zero. Except put extra holes in the block. That "fix" was never a fix and should be forgotten about.

                The oiling system is a simple hydraulic system. All that bullshit about the oil moving too fast to turn down the feed is just that...bullshit. Or a lie.

                Any engine running solid lifters of ANY kind should be tubed or bushed. If you want to run pushrod oiling, then drill a .0625 hole in the bushings or tube where it passes through the lifter bore and run it.

                If you have your shit together, 7500 RPM with a QUALITY oil pan, a HV pump with no less than 80 PSI at WOT and full groove mains is doable. Any more RPM than that and it get iffy. Over 8000 and you need to correct the oil timing.

                The crossover is just doing work to make someone feel better. Doesn't do a thing.
                 
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                • Wyrmrider

                  Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  jad
                  no sealers under the bearing shell or cap parting line-
                  the top of the bearing where the oil hole is is where the most clearance and leakage is but you do need to feed the rods so you have to run a half grove or 3/4 grove
                  bearings
                  The popular oil feed diagram is for inline engines and shows best place to feed is somewhere around 4 oclock now with a V8 you have, in theory, two locations, one for the loads from each bank. HOWEVER IMHO the perfect spots moves around in a running engine hence from the side as it's an easy mod and in theory feeds the hydrodynamic wedge on the lower shell
                   
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                  • yellow rose

                    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                    Jad I can tell you the fool who wrote the page you have posted here is full of shit and HE doesn't understand how the oiling system works. I've already explained (and done it many times with my own engines and used to have the junk parts to prove that author is stupid or lying) how you correct the oil timing to make a Chrysler oil at high RPM. The tube does nothing.

                    Look at a SBC and compare that to a SBM. They are essentially the exact same EXCEPT in one area. The oil feed holes in the crank are exactly the same. The difference is the location of the oil hole in the main bearing bulk head. And a SBC will oil way past 10k. And that's before priority oiling came along.

                    I just hate to see guys wasting time and money on junk that doesn't nothing. Piss on Chrysler for not correcting this decades ago.
                     
                  • Jadaharabi

                    Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    He is an engineer that has worked for Chrysler and wrote the book on how to make a small block live.
                    He showed Carl my old boss how to do it and modified his block for him that was run in it the old John Force funny car that he owned in B Econo funny.
                    There are people that have done the crossover on circle track motors and drag race motors and boat motors and street motors that think differently.
                    If you have a better way to make a sbm live at high rpm show me some proof.
                     
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                    • yellow rose

                      yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                      Want me to make a video?? I can. If you want to see why the Chrysler doesn't oil, look at the Chevy. And find the difference.

                      I don't care who wrote the book. He is wrong. I'd tell him to his face. Junk shit mods like that casused me to kick a bunch of rods out of very expensive blocks. So I have done it. I have fixed it. I have explained it right here, more than once.

                      You ain't fixing shit with that crossover tube. We need to STOP passing bad info around like herpes. If you personally know that author, PM me and we can conference call him and I'll explain to him why he's wrong.


                      Edit: I most likely have the book. Several months back this was a topic and I didn't have the particular book that IIRC Duane was using so I bought the book to see for myself. It's pretty evident that NONE of these people ever made power over 8000 RPM's or they'd fix what they write. And no, a dry sump doesn't fix it either.
                       
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                      • Jadaharabi

                        Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        Would love to see your video. Or pictures.

                        Show me a better way if you can. Your the only person I've seen that has bad mouthed this mod. If there were 10 people that said it was a bad mod I might change my thinking.

                        To add to my thought 10 people would probably not change my mind because I know it works.
                         
                        Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
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                        • yellow rose

                          yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                          Never put your faith in numbers. Just because many say it, doesn't make it right.

                          I just found out its date night. Who knew. I didn't. But I'm told it is.

                          If I get a chance tomorrow I'll pull out a block and a crank. Wish I had a SBC sitting here. It's much easier and quicker to do a video to explain how you fix it. For 7500 and under all you need is the right pan, full groove mains and the lifter leaks blocked. Once you go past that, you need to fix Walter P. Chrysler's poorly copied Buick/Pontiac oiling system. I forget which GM brand he started with, IIRC it's Buick but both the buick and Pontiac have the same jacked up oil timing. It's hard to fault the engineers back then. They didn't know dumb ass racers were going to take 1950's architecture and spin the guts out of it. I mean, think about it. Even in the 1970's unless you were running Pro Stock or Modified eliminator most guys weren't going much past 7500. And even at that, they were not quite at the 2 HP/CID mark. Today, Pro Stock is banging on 3 HP/CID naturally aspirated. In 1970 you'd have been locked in a rubber room for even think that possible.

                          Off to the shower and then date night. Unreal. Some day, I'll be my own boss. Maybe. If the wife lets me.
                           
                        • Jadaharabi

                          Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          We know Oldsmobile's problem starts with the weak block webbing causing block flex. But the supposed cure is to run looser main bearing clearances.
                          What I'm saying is everybody has their problems and there are more that one way to skin a cat.
                          The crossover tube is one of the ways to save the bottom end on a hydraulic cammed sbm. It has been proven time and time agin.
                          I am interested in the crank timeing groove that was mentioned earlier. Also would like to see the video.
                           
                        • rumblefish360

                          rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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                          Vi de O
                          Vi de O
                          Vi de O
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                          Vi de O
                          :mob::mob::mob::mob::mob::mob::mob::mob:
                          :lol:
                           
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                          • Coronet 500

                            Coronet 500 Well-Known Member

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                            To yellow rose, have learned about 70 degree timed oiling from your previous posts and would like to see your diagrams or video, want to know about bearing saddle grooving/drilling or crank drilling to accomplish this. My son's engine will be over 7500 through traps.
                             
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                            • anitrowarrior9

                              anitrowarrior9 Active Member

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                              My original thought when I saw the ls mains and main bearings grooved like this was that maybe this was a poor man's fix for the oil timing issue. Idk
                               
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