need 8 1/4 advice

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DirtySwiffer

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i have an 8 1/4 behind a 360/904... rear tires are junk bias L60s... but i will be running similar size, maybe a bit smaller and a bit wider in the future. im looking to get into some steeper gears in order to make the car more street friendly. wont see a track, and probly wont see highway speeds... rarely maybe. i cant find any information about swaping gears in an 8 1/4, but have found tons on 8 3/4. i found an 8 3/4 on CL complete from drum to drum with 4.10 suregrip. that sounds fun. but id need the axles swapped to bbp to run my centerlines... so id like to keep the 8 1/4 and just put newer gears in it. how big can i run on the 8 1/4 ideally id like to run around a 3.9. im looking for 0-60 speed, dont care about cruising road trips.
 
also how much is it do have the sbp to bbp done on just the rear axles? i have bbp axles, just need the work done.

ok found the axle package on drdiff for $295 which isnt a bad deal. the rear end is $900 complete... good deal? so ill be into this rear end for 1300 and 5 hours driving
 
No need to swap to the 8.750. The 8.250 is plenty strong. I have a local friend who ran one in a strip only Demon for years that ran low 11s hangin the hoops every time it left. Never broke and in fact he still has it. Only reason he swapped was because he upgraded to a nasty stroker. The 8.250 is very similar in size and shape as the Chevy 12 bolt. Don't let anyone tell you they're weak. It's not true.
 
the strength of the rear end isnt my concern. i read plenty about them, and am fully convinced that it will hold up no problem with the 360 i am running. i just really would like to throw some steeper gears in the car to give life to the bottom end. so my question is, do i swap gears in the 8 1/4 or do i buy the 8 3/4? and get the 4.5 axles from dr.diff.
 
I put 3.55's in mine along with a sure grip bought through my regional Mopar Performance Parts Dealer. They offered a 10 % "racers" discount and free shipping. Best deal I came up with. Gear change will be your cheapest and easiest solution. For your use the 8.25 would be great and your already set up for it. With the 8.75 you'll also have to modify the length of your existing drive shaft.
 
i think your right, i just searched a ring and pinion set with 3.90 gears and can get that for 200ish with install kit. just need to get in the cover and confirm that i have 2.7 and higher carrier. if it turns out that i have a suregrip carrier, can the springs be adjusted? the evidence marks on the road dont appear to be 'suregrip'. with your gear change, how was it mechanical wise? i dont know any of the tolerances inside the rearend housing.
 
Is stick with the 8-1-4, add gears and stronger axles.
Dr.Diff can handle the axles in what you need.
If it is not a sure grip, there cheap for that rear.
3.91's are very good for the street.
 
i have an 8 1/4 behind a 360/904... rear tires are junk bias L60s... but i will be running similar size, maybe a bit smaller and a bit wider in the future. im looking to get into some steeper gears in order to make the car more street friendly. wont see a track, and probly wont see highway speeds... rarely maybe. i cant find any information about swaping gears in an 8 1/4, but have found tons on 8 3/4. i found an 8 3/4 on CL complete from drum to drum with 4.10 suregrip. that sounds fun. but id need the axles swapped to bbp to run my centerlines... so id like to keep the 8 1/4 and just put newer gears in it. how big can i run on the 8 1/4 ideally id like to run around a 3.9. im looking for 0-60 speed, dont care about cruising road trips.

If your rear has a posi you could use a tire that is not quite as wide but try to have the same height if you can or close. as gears go if you now have 2.74, 3.55`s will feel like you have an extra 50 horses under the hood. Like you say...info on 8.25 is limited but 8.75 is plentiful, these two rears have some similarities but I am not sure what they are. I know the 8.75 is much stronger and has a different gear set up but some parts are even interchangeable. An 8.25 can handle up to 400 HP and maybe a bit more. I too have a 8.25 and like it.
 
yea i see no problem with keeping the 8 1/4 and am happy in doing so.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271617443511?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

that is the ring and pinion i plan to purchase. i see it doesnt come with a bearing to install on the pinion shaft... shouldnt i need one?

rumblefish, i have looked into those lockers as well... the suregrips are fairly cheap. but i was thinking that if i NEEDED to purchase a posi style unit that i would go with an aussie or spartan. theyre both priced equally.

i have not yet dyno'd the car... but i dont feel like im pushing an excessive horsepower numbers, maybe 300ish when i get it tuned properly. so i dont feel like i need top of the line parts
 
If you are only interested in 0 to 60 speed, then pick a ratio that puts you at 60mph with no gear change or just one gear change and puts you at the rpm of peak hp plus about 5% .
To find this ratio, you will need to know the exact tire circumference, and the aforementioned rpm of peak horsepower.If you dont have a dynochart, you will need one of those in-car accelerometers,like the Dynorad or the G-tec.Any other way could be a shot in the dark.If you have to shift more than once before you hit 60,your car may/will be slower than if you coulda hung in there. I like a one-gear 0 to 60, but it takes a pretty good motor to get there quick, and even more $ in the suspension.
I believe you will need 2 gears,with your combo.


Heres the math; (RPM x Tire circumference)/(1056 x Rear gear x Trans lowgear)
rewriting it to solve for gear,we get;

Rear gear =1/(mph x 1056 x trans low)/(rpm x tc)

So lets say you have 26 inch tires, an auto trans with ratios of 2.45-1.45-1.00, and that your engine peaks at 5000 rpm. Then;

Rear gear = 1/(60 x 1056 x 1.45)/ {(5000 + 5%) x (26 x 3.1416)}

and RG = 1/91872/(5250 x 81.7)

and RG = 1/.2142 =4.67

The closest ratio is a 4.56, which will require reving to 5128 @ zero convertor-slip. Bingo
Doing the same math with a one-gear(2.45 low) 0-60 requires a 2.73 RG
Obviously other ratios will work. But every other ratio will require a sub-optimum gearshift that typically costs a quarter or more seconds in a stock box, during which time the power is burning clutches.
Also obviously; if your engine is peaking at a later rpm, the gear will need to be larger, unless you use first gear. For a 5600 peak, the optimum numbers are 5.13 for 2-gear and 2.94 for a 1 gear.

If you just wanna have fun, stick whatever in there, bigger than about 3.55( which will put you at 4000/60/2nd). 3.91s get 4400/60/2nd
Aint math fun?
 
i think your right, i just searched a ring and pinion set with 3.90 gears and can get that for 200ish with install kit. just need to get in the cover and confirm that i have 2.7 and higher carrier. if it turns out that i have a suregrip carrier, can the springs be adjusted? the evidence marks on the road dont appear to be 'suregrip'. with your gear change, how was it mechanical wise? i dont know any of the tolerances inside the rearend housing.

I had a friend who does heavy equipment transmission and axle repair set mine up so I don't have any 1st hand experience inside the 8.25. I would pay a guy like that to set up the rear. Takes a bit of knowledge and the right tools and shouldn't cost too much in labor. If you are getting one wheel burn outs then most likely you have a one legger diff. My only experience with a bad "posi" type rear (chevy speak) was the car would rev but not much happened in the way of wheel spin. It was just slipping so bad inside the diff no power was getting to the axles. I don't think you can adjust the springs inside one by shimming but I could just as well be wrong.

8.75 and 8.25 share the same 3" axle tube diameter so the shock plates and u bolts interchange. The 8.75 in A body form is SBP where as the 8.25 is BBP. They both will physically bolt into the stock rear suspension but due to differing pinion lengths will require drive shaft shortening or lengthening depending on which direction your going.

Most definitely replace the pinion bearing. The kit you showed does not include one.
 
first off that math does not look like fun.
i do get both wheels to spin if i sit and power brake... could that be result of the traction bars? if i go to spin the tires cornering, the side with less load will spin. either way im not too concerned with whether or not both spin right now. but if im going to put a new rear end scheme in it, then im going to do it the way i want it. thanks for all the help guys, i really didnt want to drop 900 beans on that 8 3/4.
 
can i run 3.73 gears out of a 97 dakota 8.25 rear end? in 97 the axle splines turned to 29 spline... from the research ive done. all i want is the ring and pinion gear out of that rear, and will get a sure-grip from dr. diff. ive read that after market lockers are not very good quality in the 8.25 rear ends... if anyone has any knowledge otherwise let me know. thankyou
 
At 300-ish HP, your worry level should be zero.
At 400-ish HP, your worry level should still be zero.
When you start getting to 475+ HP, upgrade your axles and use a quality Sure Grip for no worries.
I can not attest to the quality of the diff's your looking into. I have not had an issue with the factory parts.

From what I understand, using a Dakota R&P is not a issue.

For zero - 60 mph runs on the HP level of your engine, you have nothing to fear. You could gear it higher.
 
yea im not worried about blowing the rear at all. as im most interested in the torque/ 0-60 speed... i will be traveling some 50-65 mph roads every once in a while. so i dont want to go too high. right now im at 65 roughly 1900 (hard to keep the car on the road at 60 right now lol and watch tach). im not sure dimension of tire. id say 27ish inch L-60 bias ply. the car will break loose fairly easily with the gears it has in it now and they are pretty damn low
 
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