Need a bit of guidance

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JelloB1afra

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so last night my buddy and i finally got around to checking valve to piston clearance. When we had the lifters, pushrods, head, and rockers installed, the pushrods were seated at different heights. I'm assuming this is because they are hydraulic lifters. as i rotate the crank, will they seat properly? i didnt want to try this without asking just in case i would damage something.

It's a 360 magnum with keith black pistons and i bought the longer pushrods off of scram speed.


also, the place i had send out my cam to have reground made it a bit more aggressive than i asked for. lift is around .550-.560 and duration is .282/.282. will i run into problems with valve guide/retainer clearance?
 
if the lifters are hydraulic, then valves revert to closed once oil pressure is gone. so...if it's not running. All rockers should be sitting at the same angle. Is this what you meant by different angle? it is incorrect if they are sitting staggered while not running. Next part...no. you will not have any valve to piston issues with that setup. I run a 689 lift with 2.1 valves and had a mile.
 
hmm maybe i phrased it incorrectly. i was checking on one cylinder. one rocker bolt was all the way threaded in and the pushrod was still very loose and not making contact with the rocker. the other rocker was sitting nice and tight on the pushrod. i thought maybe i needed a couple of solid lifters (that a cannot find) to check the clearance. although your cam is much more aggressive with plenty of clearance that makes me feel better about it.
 
you have to set lash on the back side of the cam. You cannot set by just going down the line. You will have to set the intake as the exhausted valve opens. Vice versa, then onto the next piston. That should set u straight. Make sense? You cant take slack out with the lobe high center. That explains your wierd sloppy rocker issue.
 
Mag engines usually have the pistons in the hole more than LA. Unless u have some crazy dome pistons, with stock valves you should have plenty. However, if u wanna sleep real well, you may wanna recheck the 4 corner pistons. Bc again if u had the lash improperly adjusted...as im guessing u did...the valves were not opening all the way.
 
if the lifters are hydraulic, then valves revert to closed once oil pressure is gone. so...if it's not running. All rockers should be sitting at the same angle.

If this is the case, how does an engine ever start before it has oil pressure? :D

The valves still open (just not all the way) and some of the rockers will be at different heights while not running. (trust me)
The oil allows the lifters to pump up to full opening and automatically sets the lash once it fills them.

Point is, he just needs to turn the engine to get the lifters off the cam lobes then adjust the preload.
This is probably why the adjuster is way out and still tight.
 
Are you using an aftermarket adjustable rocker? OEM? If this motor has factory magnum valve gear the rockers are not adjustable. Proper Pushrod length is needed to set preload.
 
Thank you TB
To jello
Furthermore, doing the math; say a lobe lift of .380 and a lifter travel of .080, can you see where this is going?
Setting the valves for the first time with dry lifters can be a treat, no doubt.
And also, on an engine thats been recently run, theres not likely been any bleed down at all
The absolute only time the rocker arm is/could be loose, is with the lifter on the "backside of the cam" ergo on the base circle, and at or near zero lifter preload.
 
Are you using an aftermarket adjustable rocker? OEM? If this motor has factory magnum valve gear the rockers are not adjustable. Proper Pushrod length is needed to set preload.

I carried the "threads on the adjuster" over from a different thread, sorry.
Everything still applies as to rod tension and rocker position, so now I would have to say everything sounds normal if the pushrods are the right length.
 
hmm it seems i have overlooked some details. this is my first engine build. pulled this 360 from a 99 ram.
had it hot tanked and bored .030 over.
the keith black are flat tops with fly cuts.
got a set of eq heads with the 2.02 sized valves
currently have a set of oem rockers.
the lifters are from a different junkyard 360 and one brand new one (chipped a lifter on removal)

it seems as though some of them have preload going on and some dont.

the pushrods i have are .036 longer than stock. im going to use a measuring pushrod to just double check next time i get a chance to get in the garage

also, cam is a custom grind with around .550-.560 lift and .282/.282 duration.

im a bit slow on the uptake this being my first build and all. ive never set valve lash before. im watching some youtube stuff right now.
 
]hmm it seems i have overlooked some details. this is
it seems as though some of them have preload going on and some dont.
-Check post#9, and note TB says if the pushrods are the right length.
-You might want to look carefully at the pushrod cups in the tops of the lifters. You may find that in the loose ones, the cup is down further than in the tight ones.The reason for this difference is that the oil has gone out of them. To check this you have to treat the engine as eight --one cylinders. The best way to do this is to put a piston/ any piston at the top of its stroke, and on the compression cycle. Both valves will now be closed, and the lifters will be on the base circle( backside of the lobes). Now you look into the cups, as you grab the rocker arm and attempt to force the pushrod down into the lifter. If/when you find a loose one, it will push the cup down into the lifter, and the little spring inside it will return it as you release the rocker arm. The reason this is possible is because the oil has drained out of it. On those that are tight, the oil is still inside them. Next you rotate the engine 1/4 turn, to the next cylinder in the firing order and repeat the test. And so on.
-Now, this tight/loose business may all be normal. The trick is to prove it. Pick any cylinder, that has a piston at the top and is on compression stroke. And with all the valve gear installed. Now shine a light into the lifter, and observe how far down inside the lifter, the pushrod cup has traveled. To determine this, you will have to know what this area looks like, when the cup is fully at the top. From your previous post I think you already know this but Ill go into it anyway.So grab your chipped lifter and inspect it for that condition, then reinspect the one in the engine and compare.When you are confident that you see the difference, then you can figure out how to measure it.
-The whole reason behind hydraulic lifters, is they are quiet.They be quiet because they are self-adjusting. The way they are able to self-adjust is via the engine oil coming inside them, under pressure from the oilpump, and pushing that little pushrod cup up against the pushrod until all the slack has been eliminated. Of course if the cup comes all the way to the top, then there is no longer any adjustability left in the system. So we as builders, and modifiers, have to engineer the adjustability back in.We do this by adjusting the pushrod length. The length needs to be long enough to push that cup down far enough that the adjustability will last at least until the next rebuild.
-Now getting back to the measuring. I use wire feeler gauges. The kind that are used for measuring sparkplug gaps. Just start sticking them in there one at a time, from biggest to littlest, until something fits. That number is called the lifter preload.Again Im sure you know that already.You may not be able to measure them all with used or in-service lifters, because some of them may be full of oil.If you let them sit under spring pressure, sooner or later they will bleed down.Some take minutes, others hours or even days. So if you really want to measure them all, you will have to force the oil out. If you can spin the pushrod its loose enough to measure.If all your parts are unmachined, I see no reason to check more than a couple or a few. On the other hand, if the heads or decks have been cut, then I would check, as another poster recommended, at least the 4 corners of the assembled engine.As to lifter preload, I did a search and the numbers are all over the place.( from .005 to .080, and even .100 was mentioned).I guess I cant help you with that at the moment. If I had to voice an opinion,on a roller lifter I should think .020 to .040 would be plenty.Your p-rod supplier might be able to give an accurate number. Perhaps someone else will chime in.
-I have adjustable rocker arms, so set my preload almost right at the top, a half turn on the screw, maybe .015 ish,, knowing, as the valve-train parts wear, I will have to readjust them, occasionally.
 
New Magnum roller lifters can be had cheap. Junkyard lifters?
 
also, the place i had send out my cam to have reground made it a bit more aggressive than i asked for. lift is around .550-.560 and duration is .282/.282. will i run into problems with valve guide/retainer clearance?

I believe that will be a huge issue. I have measured many stock heads including magnums and the most any head I measured would only allow .520 lift when the retainer hit the valve guide. Duration is a non issue. Valve lift is the problem
 
I believe that will be a huge issue. I have measured many stock heads including magnums and the most any head I measured would only allow .520 lift when the retainer hit the valve guide. Duration is a non issue. Valve lift is the problem

He says in a post a few down from the top that they are EQ heads. Wouldn't those have enough clearance? I'd like to think so since they are sold as a "performance upgrade", but I am not familiar with them enough to know.
 
He says in a post a few down from the top that they are EQ heads. Wouldn't those have enough clearance? I'd like to think so since they are sold as a "performance upgrade", but I am not familiar with them enough to know.

I overlooked it. Thanks for the correction. I'm not positive they'd handle that much lift. I didn't measure mine since I had to have them machined for double valve springs anyway but for some reason max lift of .525 comes to mind. At .550-.560 lift I'd definitely measure them.

Their not really considered a high perf head like a Edelbrock. More of just a magnum replacement with better ports for more flow.
 
He says in a post a few down from the top that they are EQ heads. Wouldn't those have enough clearance? I'd like to think so since they are sold as a "performance upgrade", but I am not familiar with them enough to know.

They were actually designed as an OE replacement head. OP will need to trim the guide bosses to clear the retainer.
 
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