Need advice on body & paint $$$$$

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well theres r4eally onlyh nine panels to a car and the guys is charging ya over a 1000 bux a panel.i mean its a southern car so its not rotted to **** in my opinion hes waay over charging. i mean ya if he needed to install quarter panels those are a grand per side the other panels are cheap to fix if no rot
 
well theres r4eally onlyh nine panels to a car and the guys is charging ya over a 1000 bux a panel.i mean its a southern car so its not rotted to **** in my opinion hes waay over charging. i mean ya if he needed to install quarter panels those are a grand per side the other panels are cheap to fix if no rot

It has rot at the lower corners of back window and where the vinyl top ended at the top of the quarters.
The body guy said he could repair it but then no guarantee it won't blister after. He said the cost of new panels and install will be same or less than the cost of repairing the old ****.
I just ordered full quarters and rear deck filler panel from AMD, so that's another expense to install these panels now.:banghead:
 
I just picked up my '72 Scamp from paint jail. Rotiesserie painted under and body and assembled and fitted, no body work other than filling some holes and finish. Prepped primed, blocked,color,clear, cut & buff. $3500 for paint and materials, $1000 for blasting. Paid him $12,000 including 2 stripes ($400). Good body men/painters don't work for free. He did outstanding work AND he provided a slide show of his progress
 
Expensive hobby huh !

Ya, funny thing is we sold our snowmobiles and trailer 2 years ago because it was just too expensive and only got to use them a few times a year. Traded them in for my Dart less than 2 years ago. My car should be completed by spring and I'll be into it for approx. $60G's :pale: Maybe I should have stayed with sledding

Joking aside, I plan to never sell this car. It will one day be passed to my son :burnout:
 
Ya, funny thing is we sold our snowmobiles and trailer 2 years ago because it was just too expensive and only got to use them a few times a year. Traded them in for my Dart less than 2 years ago. My car should be completed by spring and I'll be into it for approx. $60G's :pale: Maybe I should have stayed with sledding

Joking aside, I plan to never sell this car. It will one day be passed to my son :burnout:

I wouldn`t pay that to have a cadilac gold plated ! i`d buy the stuff and do it myself first!
 
I wouldn`t pay that to have a cadilac gold plated ! i`d buy the stuff and do it myself first!

Ummm, That's pretty much all new parts, I have done it all myself for the most part. However not just anyone can do bodywork, mind you many guys "think" they can. I not going to drop that much cash into a car and have it look like ****.
So far I have put out $1500 to have some parts stripped and primed, $1600 for the new panels, still need some sand blasting done for a pile of small parts so that's about another $500
I decided I'm going to dig up the extra funds some place and have my buddy do the paint for the $10G, so add the other expenses on that I'm looking at somewhere between $13,500-$14G

Here's a few of the other major expenses:
Engine build $13,200
Transmission $1100
Converter $800
Rear-end $4500

If that scares you, start adding up a list of about 200 small items that most people don't think about when they wanna restore a car. small parts = big $
 
You can break down the cost of painting a car, to the same tune as your other expenses and it will make sense to you, after you've budgeted how much time has been sunken into each piece of the process.

Up until May of this year, I was restoring cars for a living, full time for a shop.

We charged a minimum of $7k for body and paint, if the car needed any kind of rust repair, because of the sheer amount of work involved on a car.

I just finished assembling a new back half on a '70 AAR cuda. There was nothing, behind the rear window channel, except for frame rails.

I can tell you without any doubt, that AMD makes reasonable parts, but they are absolutely in no way, ready to assemble on to any car. The flanges needed cutting, a few parts needed adjustment and tweaking, like the decklid that had too much arch to fit the same contour of the deck filler, etc.

Once you've ground every spot weld and you have taken care of any hidden rust or other corrosion, you've got any ugly metal straightened back out and weatherproofed, you are ready to start tackling the task of getting those quarter panels aligned perfectly with the doors, deck filler, deck lid opening, rear body, etc.

When you replace full quarters, especially on both sides, you are looking at alignment on basically every single panel on the car, because it all follows the quarter panels, as they do not adjust once in place and you need to have enough adjustment in the hinged and bolted panels to get the correct gaps.

More often than not, even with brand new panels, gap adjusting with minor edge welding is needed to get a good gap.

To anyone trash talking a $10k paint job that includes the painstaking process of replacing full quarters or even rust repair patching;

If you think you can do it, do it yourself. This is not an insult. This is the mindset that I took on and that is exactly what I do. I don't pay. I do it myself. It takes some practice, but if you want to save the money, spend the time and get comfy with a face shield and earplugs. It is all nasty work. Sanding body filler is loaded with talc/ chalk and gets more airborne than sawdust. You will be wiping it out of your eyelashes and sweating pools, if you do it right, with a two foot longboard.

Its easy to forget when terms like "body shop prison" are used. People watch too much fuckin' TV and assume that its easy work or some sort of magic. No. It doesn't just take years worth of screw ups to know how to do it right with enough confidence to charge someone for it, it burns more calories than a PX90 workout. I lost 40lbs in 3 months doing a complete paint job, 2 years ago, over the summer. I clocked out at work and worked until 9pm every night for 3 months, until it was color sanded, polished and put together, and I didn't even have the task of full panel replacement.

Even though I had no major collision to deal with and only typical rust, I still had to remove every single panel, replace the hinge pins in the doors and do a ton of gap correcting, because the factory stuff was that ugly.

Pay the man his 10k or get ready for a trial of patience and your physical endurance.
 
I'm in southwest Ontario and had s shop do mine for 8k. But my car is pretty straight with no body panels needing replaced.

Where are you located?

Riddler
 
I will put my 2 cents worth in on this subject, I will start buy saying I own a restoration,fabrication,hot rod shop. We only deal in 1972 and older cars.
With that said I quote pricing on paint almost every day. a starting price as a rule of thumb starts at 10,000. I will also say that there may be only a handful of cars painted for this price. I will only give a written estimate after the car come back from blast.
You would not believe what you will find when down to bare metal. Your biggest expense will be in labor to get the car to paint. What may seem to be a simple process to the outsider is anything but simple. Countless hours of metal work, blocking and sanding every single inch of a car is very time consuming. Other thing to consider that you may not understand is cost of material. We will go through 4-6 gallons of primer surfacer . 2 gallons of epoxy primer. countless rolls of tape. masking material. and an unbelievable amount of sand paper. Consumable materials such as welding wire,welding gas, clean up materials. body filler, mixing sheets. cost of paint booth filters.
The cost of paint can also be a big factor. there is good paint/ clears and cheap paint/clears. Big difference. after paint consider the time it takes to wet sand and buff. for us we budget about 40/50 hours. how about painting the dash and all interior pieces. assembly time to get back to at least a roller about 40 hours. 30,000 seems a little step to me but all depends on how much sheet metal work is needed. I would budget for between 14-18K
 
Most people don't realise what the difference is between award winning paint and a shiny
paint job. My 1970 Challenger was picked by Mother Wax out of a show field of 1500 cars
for "Best Paint". I can tell you it's not cheap if you want results. My 1971 Demon was
painted by the same guy. It cost me $10,000 for paint on this one.
 

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I will put my 2 cents worth in on this subject, I will start buy saying I own a restoration,fabrication,hot rod shop. We only deal in 1972 and older cars.
With that said I quote pricing on paint almost every day. a starting price as a rule of thumb starts at 10,000. I will also say that there may be only a handful of cars painted for this price. I will only give a written estimate after the car come back from blast.
You would not believe what you will find when down to bare metal. Your biggest expense will be in labor to get the car to paint. What may seem to be a simple process to the outsider is anything but simple. Countless hours of metal work, blocking and sanding every single inch of a car is very time consuming. Other thing to consider that you may not understand is cost of material. We will go through 4-6 gallons of primer surfacer . 2 gallons of epoxy primer. countless rolls of tape. masking material. and an unbelievable amount of sand paper. Consumable materials such as welding wire,welding gas, clean up materials. body filler, mixing sheets. cost of paint booth filters.
The cost of paint can also be a big factor. there is good paint/ clears and cheap paint/clears. Big difference. after paint consider the time it takes to wet sand and buff. for us we budget about 40/50 hours. how about painting the dash and all interior pieces. assembly time to get back to at least a roller about 40 hours. 30,000 seems a little step to me but all depends on how much sheet metal work is needed. I would budget for between 14-18K

great post......I too, do this professionally

every car is unique, but even a clean body can easily eat up 300 hours..........

a recent job on a 70 roadrunner consumed approx 800 honest, high quality man hours, after the owner disassembled the car. this included replacement of the trunk pan, outer wheelhouses, 1/4s, dutchman, and door skins. then there is blasting of the underside, the hood compartment, door jambs, door frames, door hinges, hood springs, backsides of hood and trunk lid, rear body panel, ect. then, there is chemical stripping of roof, fenders, hood, and trunk lid. then there repairs such as small patches, and dents; removal of old seam sealer. I'm sure i left something out, but this is all before primer. Panel fitment is also critical to a nice job, as well as finishing of welds....... this was a pretty decent car, others dont need all the metal replacement; but the point is that there is a TON of work that goes into a quality job..... the alternative is to send it to maaco........ remember, you get what you pay for; actually, a good shop will give you more than you pay for. and remember, no one has a magic wand.......

a members dart.....



 
You can break down the cost of painting a car, to the same tune as your other expenses and it will make sense to you, after you've budgeted how much time has been sunken into each piece of the process.

Up until May of this year, I was restoring cars for a living, full time for a shop.

We charged a minimum of $7k for body and paint, if the car needed any kind of rust repair, because of the sheer amount of work involved on a car.

I just finished assembling a new back half on a '70 AAR cuda. There was nothing, behind the rear window channel, except for frame rails.

I can tell you without any doubt, that AMD makes reasonable parts, but they are absolutely in no way, ready to assemble on to any car. The flanges needed cutting, a few parts needed adjustment and tweaking, like the decklid that had too much arch to fit the same contour of the deck filler, etc.

Once you've ground every spot weld and you have taken care of any hidden rust or other corrosion, you've got any ugly metal straightened back out and weatherproofed, you are ready to start tackling the task of getting those quarter panels aligned perfectly with the doors, deck filler, deck lid opening, rear body, etc.

When you replace full quarters, especially on both sides, you are looking at alignment on basically every single panel on the car, because it all follows the quarter panels, as they do not adjust once in place and you need to have enough adjustment in the hinged and bolted panels to get the correct gaps.

More often than not, even with brand new panels, gap adjusting with minor edge welding is needed to get a good gap.

To anyone trash talking a $10k paint job that includes the painstaking process of replacing full quarters or even rust repair patching;

If you think you can do it, do it yourself. This is not an insult. This is the mindset that I took on and that is exactly what I do. I don't pay. I do it myself. It takes some practice, but if you want to save the money, spend the time and get comfy with a face shield and earplugs. It is all nasty work. Sanding body filler is loaded with talc/ chalk and gets more airborne than sawdust. You will be wiping it out of your eyelashes and sweating pools, if you do it right, with a two foot longboard.

Its easy to forget when terms like "body shop prison" are used. People watch too much fuckin' TV and assume that its easy work or some sort of magic. No. It doesn't just take years worth of screw ups to know how to do it right with enough confidence to charge someone for it, it burns more calories than a PX90 workout. I lost 40lbs in 3 months doing a complete paint job, 2 years ago, over the summer. I clocked out at work and worked until 9pm every night for 3 months, until it was color sanded, polished and put together, and I didn't even have the task of full panel replacement.

Even though I had no major collision to deal with and only typical rust, I still had to remove every single panel, replace the hinge pins in the doors and do a ton of gap correcting, because the factory stuff was that ugly.

Pay the man his 10k or get ready for a trial of patience and your physical endurance.
I absolutely LOVE this reply! I LOVE IT! As a guy who studied Auto Body Collision Repair and Refinishing in the early 80s I couldn't have explained it better myself. That was in the easy days of single stage paint jobs! Wet sanded polished clear coat paint jobs were unheard of back then. It was hard work then and its 10 times more complicated now with the new paint systems and just the equipment alone, the quality paint gun is $300 and up, the industrial size 2 stage air compressor needed to supply air for a modern paint gun and air tools can be $2000 at the least and up. Many people who become interested in auto restoration assume that they can go buy a Sears 5 HP compressor for $200 and be set unfortunately are very wrong. Single stage and especially the oiless cheap compressors are NOT designed to operate or supply near enough air to operate a sandblaster, HVLP paint gun, or even a budget priced DA sander. They are simply nailer, stapler, tire inflators, etc. Definitely not for the auto shop. The prices of modern base clear paints are 10 times the price of a gallon of acrylic enamel with reducer of the 80s. I hate to say as much as I am interested and love to do body and paint work I have to admit its way above me now. When I learned it at vo-tech, wet sanded, polished, glass smooth paint jobs were a thing of the future. All we had was lacquer, acrylic, or synthol (synthetic) enamels. I remember 1 gallon of paint, 1 gallon of reducer, and a pint of hardener was around $80 back then. It was exciting to walk out of the paint supply store with a box of EVERYTHING needed to do a complete a paint job was less than $200. 2 part epoxy primers weren't an option. Lacquer primer surfacer (fill primer) was the big thing. Body filler today is so much different than back then. Better materials mean better quality jobs but also mean 10 times more money. To me I feel like progression has ruined the hobby for many people such as myself. Gone are the days of doing your own body/paint work.
:???:
 
great post......I too, do this professionally

every car is unique, but even a clean body can easily eat up 300 hours..........

a recent job on a 70 roadrunner consumed approx 800 honest, high quality man hours, after the owner disassembled the car. this included replacement of the trunk pan, outer wheelhouses, 1/4s, dutchman, and door skins. then there is blasting of the underside, the hood compartment, door jambs, door frames, door hinges, hood springs, backsides of hood and trunk lid, rear body panel, ect. then, there is chemical stripping of roof, fenders, hood, and trunk lid. then there repairs such as small patches, and dents; removal of old seam sealer. I'm sure i left something out, but this is all before primer. Panel fitment is also critical to a nice job, as well as finishing of welds....... this was a pretty decent car, others dont need all the metal replacement; but the point is that there is a TON of work that goes into a quality job..... the alternative is to send it to maaco........ remember, you get what you pay for; actually, a good shop will give you more than you pay for. and remember, no one has a magic wand.......

a members dart.....




Well put guy's,Ive seen cars go through our shop at $100.000+,Start adding in nut's,bolts, clips,with proper finishes,rechroming,and stainless repair and polishing the hours pile up in a hurry!
 
Start phoning some clubs in local towns a lot of them are listed in the back of the old car trader (they were when I bothered to buy it )I went outside of my town (100 miles away )got a much better deal , body shops willing to work on old stuff are getting hard to find,mine was done as a filler job and took a year to do , but he did let me do payments.
 
Ok, now some of these posts are talking about doing the full restoration. I'm talking, I already have the car completely tore down to a bare shell. After paint I will reassemble the car of everything other than the body panels. Interior, windows, trim, seals...... I will be doing all that myself.

Now in one of the last posts there was a comment of $10G for paint and hanging new quarters....... The$10G is for paint only, any rust repair, stripping parts, hanging new panels is all additional cost.
 
10 grand is not out of line for the quality of work you say he can do.
A friend of mine who is a professional body man and only works on older Mopars (for years) in his restoration shop just charged 2 grand to install a full AMD floor pan in a '64 Savoy 2 door post. This was cut out the old floor, prepare everything PROPERLY, weld in the new pan, prime, seam seal, and paint. All of the materials were extra including the floor pan.
This was for labour only. Total cost was a bit under 3 grand for the owner.
You get what you pay for.
 
There are 2 guys in my neck of the woods that specializes in restorations and does show quality work. Their base price is $15,000 if the car is stripped. They do nice work though! Here's one that Tim did.
tmm
 

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This is a GREAT and honest thread!You are hearing the straight of body and paint!This is exactly why you must consider the car you are building.You say it is for the love of these machines?The absolute truth is why build a /6 car when you can build a 340-383-440-hemi and later on at least get back most of your money?Al Sheib or Maaco can paint one for $299.00 its your choice.My opinion is that he IS your friend and is telling you correctly!
 
lets say you spend 7500........ 1500 for materials (which prob dont cover everything)

leaves 6K for labor......... at 50 per hour its 120 hours......... its just not enough time for a quality job, neither you or the guy doing the work will be happy..... it wont end well.

that being said, the person/shop performing the work should know better.....beware of someone willing to work cheap, it could be like throwing money away, especially when rust starts creeping out of the nooks and crannys
 
Believe it or not this one was done by a local macco shop, this place in williston vt has god people from past restoration shops ect. We bought the panels and cut them out, they put a full drivers quarter on , passenger side patches and trunk and quarter extensions , the rest of the car was pretty rough also . To do everything including paint they charged $4,800 ... We have had many cars done with them
 

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If no body work, sanding or disassembling & all I would have to do is tape the car up, depending on color. The price would be between $1,800 to $2,500 That is no wet sanding & buffing.
 
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