need input on 318 build

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zinser72

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first off, i did a search and couldnt get the answers i was looking for. i sold off a lot of stuff and i have about $1500 to work with. i already have a forged 273 crank. my plan with this engine is street/strip/and occational track days (im 10 miles from Road America) so this engine will take a beating. im shooting for 450-500 hp and 7000 rpm.

im just doing the short block right now. heads and cam will come later when i have more money. im thinking forged crank, scat I-beams with ARP bolts (rods are rated to 650hp, whatever that actually means) and kb 167 pistons. do you think ill have balancing issues? also are the scat rods as good as they say they are?

rod weight-595g
piston weight-507g
pin weight-132g
paired with factory forged 273 crank

Will the parts take that kind of rpm? i cant afford forged pistons so i guess im just looking for input on what kind of rpm would be safe then. also do i need main studs? oiling system is taken care of, just worried about the nuts and bolts part. also any specific ring recommendations? any input would be appreciated.
 
I think with that target RPM you'd better balance it. I had my 360 balanced, it's a similar build. I used a cast crank though. You might want to think about oil mods too. It sounds like a fun engine!
 
you want to balance it...the scat rods are alot lighter then the stock rods and weight will need to be taken off the crank journals.
 
Get a nice harmonic dampener thats sfi approved. and flex plate or flywheel. For the oiling if you plan on revving the motor higher than 7grand then you need to add a cross tube from your lifter galley.
 
i planned on balancing it, i was just wondering if it would be too far off or present issues. what i am doing for oiling mods is HV pickup, homemade baffle in stock pan (duster) and drilled all the oil passages from oil pump to main bearing to 1/2" and rounded off all the sharp egdes. What might happen with no cross over tube? i dont understand the theory behind it. my knowledge of the oiling system is very limited.

also is stock flywheel good to 7000? what harmonic dampener is good but cheap? (unlikely, i know)

thanks for responses so far
 
So In a Mopar small-block, the right oil gallery supplies the No. 1-4 mains, and then the oil transfers back up from the No.1 main to feed the left gallery. so you blocked the right side feed to the No. 1 main, and fabricated a 3/8-inch tube crossover, which supplies the left gallery, and sends oil down to the No. 1 main from there. This mod helps with main oiling at high rpm
 
It should balance just fine, but it will need weight removed off the crank. No biggie.

I had my 318 balanced, it has a cast crank, Eagle SIR I beams and JE forged pistons. Mine is at-

Piston and pin = 593 g (the forged JE's are light!)
Total rod weight = 604 g (rotating + reciprocating)

Balanced just fine, way lighter than stock though so some weight had to be removed from the crank.

The only thing I would think about is the pistons, the KB's are hypers. If you're really looking at that kind of abuse, I'd think about going forged.

I'd also look at a higher capacity oil pan. The Milodon road race pan would be ideal, but something like the Kevko would also be a good improvement over stock. I have both, the Milodon road race pan is a beautiful piece, but costs every penny of it. The Kevko is a little rough looking, but is still a big improvement over a stock pan and doesn't hang down below the K member.
 
To spin the engine over 6500 safely and repeatedly, you must balance it and do the oiling mods as mentioned or you will starve the e vine of oil and wipe it out.
Do a search on member "Guitar Jones" and his oiling mod thread.

Check Summit racing for a inexpensive balancer.
 
zinser72 said:
http://www.kevkoracing.com/images/M301_full.gif

so would this pan be good enough? i have stock suspension and cheap long tube headers so i think this is about as big as i can go. what if i add in a 3 qt oil accumulator later on before i road race it?

also any preference on piston rings?
Click to expand...

Yup, that's the pan I was talking about. It's not really a road race pan per se, the baffling is pretty much all front to rear instead of side to side. But it would be easy to add a lateral baffle. It'd be a big improvement over stock though. The 6qt capacity would be better for the sustained RPM's, and the baffling it does have will help keep the pickup submerged. Plus it has a crank scraper that you can tweak to improve the oil shedding off the crank. And if you've got cheap long tube headers, they will still be the lowest point on the car.

Milodon's road race pan (31590) is the best out there, but it also costs well over twice as much as the Kevko. You can see why here though

MIL-31590_PZ.jpg



I did have to do a little tweaking with the Kevko oil pickup to run it with a windage tray and set it up level to the bottom of the pan, but it was a pretty easy fix.

For the price the Kevko is hard to beat, even if it needs a little fine tuning. I forget who it was, but someone that ordered a Kevko pan recently called them up and paid an extra $50 to have it TIG welded instead of MIG welded. The MIG welding looks a little lumpy, so the $50 to have it TIG welded would improve the finish quite a bit. And it'd still cost less than half of what the Milodon costs.

Maybe one of the engine builders can chime in on rings, I would think that a moly ring from any of the major manufacturer's would be fine.
 
one last question, i read up on the pan and on kevko's website they say 5 qt but another website selling it says 5 minimum and it will hold 6. what's right? also is this front or rear sump? it says stock location but i thought that varied. mine is front. thanks again for the responses
 
zinser72 said:
one last question, i read up on the pan and on kevko's website they say 5 qt but another website selling it says 5 minimum and it will hold 6. what's right? also is this front or rear sump? it says stock location but i thought that varied. mine is front. thanks again for the responses
Click to expand...

The Kevko pan holds 5 qts by itself, so with 1 in the filter you have a total capacity of 6 quarts, or one extra quart over stock.

Technically its not a front or rear sump, it follows the stock center sump configuration. But semantics aside, its a car pan, so it fits stock A/B/E body cars.
 
Didn't one of our guys here work with Milodon on developing that pan? A Cali. Fella IIRC. Barracuda owner…
 
You'll need more than $1500.
 
what filter do you recommend i run? something bigger than stock right? also oil recommendation? i've used amsoil z-rod 10w 30 in the past but what should i break it in on?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Didn't one of our guys here work with Milodon on developing that pan? A Cali. Fella IIRC. Barracuda owner…
Click to expand...

Yup, autoxcuda worked with Milodon on developing that pan. The thread on it is here

It's a beautiful pan, I have one for my Challenger for the 340 going in it, and you'd be hard pressed to come up with a better pan for autocross or road courses for our cars.

That said, it also isn't exactly a "on a budget" kind of pan, it'll set you back almost $500 for pan and pickup. Which is why I mentioned the Kevko. It's not even close to being in the same league as the Milodon, but it also costs about half of what the Milodon costs, and beats the crap out of running a stock pan. For a dedicated racer the Milodon is the only way to go, but the Kevko is definitely a step up over stock for a car that will see more than just weekend cruiser duty.


zinser72 said:
what filter do you recommend i run? something bigger than stock right? also oil recommendation? i've used amsoil z-rod 10w 30 in the past but what should i break it in on?
Click to expand...

If you're running headers you're not going to be able to find a "bigger" oil filter to run unless you relocate it. Bigger isn't really what you need anyway, just buy quality filters.

Oil recommendations will run the gamut, everyone has their preference. If you've got a flat tappet cam, just make sure that whatever you pick has zinc in it, most oils don't anymore.
 
Thanks 72. I knew it was him but could not think of the screen name at the time. Good show! Sweet pan. Pricey, but shaweet!
 
yeah, im figuring totals and it will be over. but if i need to save a little more and do it right i will. i appreciate all your input. thanks for giving me a sense of direction!
 
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