new 42rh a500 rebuilt transmission problem

[jap901]

I rebuilt a 91 dodge Dakota 42rh a500 transmission or should I say I tryed lol. I have manual 1st and rev no manual 2nd and when shift in 3rd it like I put on the brakes it locks up to the point it will slid the tires. If put in drive it it will not pull but if taking off in manual 1tobget up some speed and shift straight to drivebsomentimesnit shifts to 2nd but when shift to 3rd it will lock down the tires. Ive readjusted the bands many times 72in pounds back off 4 turns for the rear band and 2.5 for the front with no change. I modified the valve body so I got me a stock unmodified valve body and still the same problem. Can any of you got any input that may help me on this issue? it will be greatly appreciated.

One more thing the front band in my rebuild kit was wider than the original i replaced. Could this be the problem?

 

[AJ/FormS]

Did you do an air pressure test before putting the valve body on?I think the air pressure test will be revealing.I would go straight to the air pressure test.I have a feeling your tranny is catching 2 gears at once, or one is not releasing, and Im thinking its the second gear (KD) servo.I would also pop that piston outta there and inspect it, especially if the pressure test is ok.
From your description, we know that the rear clutch is working, and so is the L/R band. You say manual 2nd is no where to be found.and when you shift to Drive something happens, so very likely the front clutch is working ok as well. And the VB swap proves its not in the VB.
That just leaves the KD servo.SO, Actually I think Id go to the KD first.
Im trying to figure out how the KD band could be stuck on, and the tranny still get low and reverse.So far it escapes me. Im reviewing the manual.

 

[jap901]

Did you do an air pressure test before putting the valve body on?
Is it a little sluggish on take off?

I just applied air to the ports that make the front and rear band tighting and lossen. If I put it in manual 1st its not sluggish at all if I put in drive it like it slips and doesnt hardle move and whennit does it like the brakes on

 

[AJ/FormS]

So youre saying the bands worked perfectly with the air pressure test. And the clutches too, Im assuming?
So if its not sluggish, then its not stuck in 2nd.
Hmmmm. I wonder what would happen if the overrunning clutch were assembled wrong?
Well the first thing is there would be no power transmission in Drive/breakaway.Check.

 

[jap901]

So youre saying the bands worked perfectly with the air pressureindolent know test. And the clutches too, Im assuming?

I applied air to the ports that made the front and rear servos operate the bands thats all I done. I dont know how to apply air check for clutches

 

[AJ/FormS]

About the clutches, thats ok. From your description we know theyre both working.
Lets get back to the overrunning clutch. Do you think theres any chance you assembled it wrong? The only way I can think that it could be done is to put the springs on the wrong side of the rollers.

 

[jap901]

Im pulling the transmission tomorrow and tearing it back down. Its the only thing I known to do at this point. Thia is my first try at a rebuild and I don't plan on giving up

 

[jap901]

About the clutches, thats ok. From your description we know theyre both working.
Lets get back to the overrunning clutch. Do you think theres any chance you assembled it wrong? The only way I can think that it could be done is to put the springs on the wrong side of the rollers.

It may possible I will check when I tear it down again. Thanks for your input and help by the way.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Boy, Im surprised nobody else is chiming in. Theres lots of smarter guys than me on here.
Too bad that sprag is way down deep inside there. Ok good luck then. Dont be a stranger.
BTW, hows that 318 running with the new cam?

 

[jap901]

Ok I looked up to make sure i known what an over running clutch was and that wasn the part I had a 3 or 4 roller come out and I thought I put them back in there proper place but maybe thats my problem I hope so that way I'll know what I did wrong.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Awright!

 

[jap901]

Boy, Im surprised nobody else is chiming in. Theres lots of smarter guys than me on here.
Too bad that sprag is way down deep inside there. Ok good luck then. Dont be a stranger.
BTW, hows that 318 running with the new cam?

It running good so far, its alot better than the other cam it just doesnt aound as mean but its alot better starting and idling gear.

 

[Hipo65]

In 3rd gear the fwd clutch & front clutch are applied in the front half of the tran. back half is the direct clutch & O/D overrun roller clutch is holding. If all of a sudden when going into 3rd it locks up (by the way power flow goes) it sounds like the 2nd gear band isn't releasing. But that still don't explane the sluggish in drive.. hummm. so it does this with a bone stock 42rh valve body then too correct? Will need some pics of the wider band too. I always run through the gears on jack stands so I know I have all gears before it hits the pavement.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Heckof a project there. And what about the new vacuum numbers? The guys are interested to know, in your other thread 318XE....

 

[jap901]

In 3rd gear the fwd clutch & front clutch are applied in the front half of the tran. back half is the direct clutch & O/D overrun roller clutch is holding. If all of a sudden when going into 3rd it locks up (by the way power flow goes) it sounds like the 2nd gear band isn't releasing. But that still don't explane the sluggish in drive.. hummm. so it does this with a bone stock 42rh valve body then too correct? Will need some pics of the wider band too. I always run through the gears on jack stands so I know I have all gears before it hits the pavement.

Yes it does the same with the stocks 42rh valve body also. Thanks

 

[jap901]

Heckof a project there. And what about the new vacuum numbers? The guys are interested your other thread 318XE....

I havent pulled any vacuum on it to see, it just been installed about a week and I been racking my head over this transmission.

Thanks for the comment its a 46 chevy cab chipped 6in seating on a 51 3/4 ton frame, 54 1/2 ton straight axle, 87 Chrysler 318, 91 dodge a500 trans, 66 mustang radiator, 91 caddy taillights, 79 chevy van gas tank and steering column cut down to 13in, 97 Nissan brake booster brake and gas pedal, 2000 dodge caravan 3rd roll seat, dodge van over load shocks on front, VW shocks on rear 37 dodge bus heater 14in chevy front wheels dodge 16in rear wheels.

Putting this mopar engine in this chevy really makes the chevy guys up set lol.

 

[jap901]

In 3rd gear the fwd clutch & front clutch are applied in the front half of the tran. back half is the direct clutch & O/D overrun roller clutch is holding. If all of a sudden when going into 3rd it locks up (by the way power flow goes) it sounds like the 2nd gear band isn't releasing. But that still don't explane the sluggish in drive.. hummm. so it does this with a bone stock 42rh valve body then too correct? Will need some pics of the wider band too. I always run through the gears on jack stands so I know I have all gears before it hits the pavement.

Pic of the new front band that came with kit installed.

 

[fishy68]

Pic of the new front band that came with kit installed.

Does the wider band rub on anything that'd jam it up? If not I doubt it's the problem. I used a wider band in my 904 without any issue. The only thing I can think of is what A/J said about possibly putting the rear sprague together wrong. That would explain the sluggish drive in D position but when you pull it down to manual low the rear band holds the drum. The first thing I'd do before disassembly is an air pressure test. Then I'd check the rear sprague. I attached a PDF file that shows where you inject 30-35 psi of air to test each component. It's for a 904/727 but the clutch ports and band ports are the same

 

[jap901]

Does the wider band rub on anything that'd jam it up? If not I doubt it's the problem. I used a wider band in my 904 without any issue. The only thing I can think of is what A/J said about possibly putting the rear sprague together wrong. That would explain the sluggish drive in D position but when you pull it down to manual low the rear band holds the drum. The first thing I'd do before disassembly is an air pressure test. Then I'd check the rear sprague. I attached a PDF file that shows where you inject 30-35 psi of air to test each component. It's for a 904/727 but the clutch ports and band ports are the same

Thank you for you help. I injected 35psi to the ports by I heard or seen no other function besides front/rear servo moving when that pors where injected.

 

[jap901]

I must have adjusted the front band incorrectly yesterday the front band and burn up and it direct drum is scarred badly. The direct drum clutches are burned up it looked like one of them was in a tangled up peaces so im assuming I lined up something incorrectly or installed it wrong all together and this is where the bind up was.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Just for curiosity, how much driving did it take for that to happen.
Yesterday,I was looking for a hydraulic reason for that 2nd to not be releasing, and just couldnt figure it. Today I know why. It wasnt a hydraulic issue!
Sorry about your trials. I know how you feel.
Its sometimes a little difficult to feel when all the clutches engage. I can usually count them as they engage and when its right, the front clutch assy rocks on the washer differently than when it rocks on a clutch. But the disengagement usually occurs during the install into the case. I stand the case up on its tail, to install the geartrain as Im sure you did too.
When I drop the clutch stack in as an assy with the band on, I make real sure to not snag the front clutch on anything, and keep thumb pressure on it as its going in, and steer the assy with my other hand to engage the sunshell slots.Once its down, I again check the rocking feel.Hope that helps
Im surprised the pump went in ok. Usually if a clutch is renegade the pump wont seat quite right.
I prefit the pump to the tranny with the bolts loose before the geartrain goes in.I use line-up pins. I smear o-ring lube all round the pump house and liberally coat the big o-ring.Just before I snug the bolts up from inside the case, I verify that the outside bolt holes all accept their bolts. Next I pop the pump assy out and torque it.Now it will practically drop home. I use the line-up pins again for final assy.
I guess it wouldnt hurt to check the sprague(over running clutch), since you say you previously had a couple of rollers fall out.
Ok so better luck second time.

 

[jap901]

Just for curiosity, how much driving did it take for that to happen.
Yesterday,I was looking for a hydraulic reason for that 2nd to not be releasing, and just couldnt figure it. Today I know why. It wasnt a hydraulic issue!
Sorry about your trials. I know how you feel.
Its sometimes a little difficult to feel when all the clutches engage. I can usually count them as they engage and when its right, the front clutch assy rocks on the washer differently than when it rocks on a clutch. But the disengagement usually occurs during the install into the case. I stand the case up on its tail, to install the geartrain as Im sure you did too.
When I drop the clutch stack in as an assy with the band on, I make real sure to not snag the front clutch on anything, and keep thumb pressure on it as its going in, and steer the assy with my other hand to engage the sunshell slots.Once its down, I again check the rocking feel.Hope that helps
Im surprised the pump went in ok. Usually if a clutch is renegade the pump wont seat quite right.
I prefit the pump to the tranny with the bolts loose before the geartrain goes in.I use line-up pins. I smear o-ring lube all round the pump house and liberally coat the big o-ring.Just before I snug the bolts up from inside the case, I verify that the outside bolt holes all accept their bolts. Next I pop the pump assy out and torque it.Now it will practically drop home. I use the line-up pins again for final assy.
I guess it wouldnt hurt to check the sprague(over running clutch), since you say you previously had a couple of rollers fall out.
Ok so better luck second time.

About 8 or 10 200yrd trips from the shop and back. Thanks for all the help and pointers and no I installed it on the side but ill make sure it up right this time. Now I need a good direct drum clutches and steels. Yes I will double check the over running clutch tomorrow. Thanks much for all the help ones I get the trans back in ill get that vacuum check for you and the other guys.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Oh I guess the engine and the tranny are from the same vehicle then. I hadnt clued in to that.
Wow say 9 X 200 = 1800yds. Thats just about 1 mile. Thats an amazing amount of damage.
Check all you thrust washers too.There should be a T-washer between every two rotating parts.And then the final check is endplay.

 

[Hipo65]

That's why i ALLWAYS make sure i jave all gears on jack stands before i ever put it on the ground! Going to halfta totally clean everything in that trans again my friend!

 

[jap901]

Oh I guess the engine and the tranny are from the same vehicle then. I hadnt clued in to that.
Wow say 9 X 200 = 1800yds. Thats just about 1 mile. Thats an amazing amount of damage.
Check all you thrust washers too.There should be a T-washer between every two rotating parts.And then the final check is endplay.

Yes Sir the engine and trans is from the same ride. As for that damage. I didnt help it none gassing on it when it felt like its going to lock up the wheels. What is a T-washer? Here is a trans brake down can you point it out to me?