New engine problems

[harvenator]

OK guys, I'm looking for some ideas.
I just rebuilt a 65 273. It has a mild Camcraft cam with solid lifters, all new mild performance springs, new stock valves etc.
It's been changed over to an electronic ignition. I have a D4B manifold with an adapter for a 2 bbl as that's all I have to play with right now.
When I first started the engine, I had to advance the distrubutor around 35 degrees (that's a guess -- the mark is about 3 inches short of the timing tab.). After start and warm up, I brought the timing back to about 5 deg advance and it sounds pretty gnarly but won't stay running and won't restart unless advanced again.
I pulled #1 plug and brought it up to TDC and checked the rotor and it's right on #1. I've sprayed for leaks around the intake and carb -- nothing.
I've rechecked firing order, I'm getting fuel but it doesn't like a 1000 rpm idle and timing in proper place. I'm running out of ideas and don't have $300 for a new carb yet.
Anyone?

 

[67Dart273]

1. Just how "mild" is this cam?

2. How do you know the timing marks are correct?

3. Have you played enough that you can tell (or not) that the mechanical advance is working?

 

[fishy68]

Get the piston at TDC and see where the balancer mark is pointing. It should be pointing right at zero. If not either the outer ring on the balancer slipped or the engine has the wrong combination of balancer and timing cover, e.i. old balancer and new t. chain cover or vise versa.

 

[67Dart273]

Get the piston at TDC and see where the balancer mark is pointing. It should be pointing right at zero. If not either the outer ring on the balancer slipped or the engine has the wrong combination of balancer and timing cover, e.i. old balancer and new t. chain cover or vise versa.

Good advice except "you can't do that" In other words, there's no good way to tell when the piston is at TDC

HERE is how to check your timing marks with the heads on:

Buy or make a "piston stop" like this:

You can make one by cutting around the plug crimp with a hacksaw, then driving out the guts, and tapping the shell for a bolt. Rig a locknut. Length is not critical, so long as it will contact the piston someplace. It's wise to unhook the battery during this

Put the stop in no1, rotate the engine with a wrench GENTLY until it stops. Make a temporary mark right under TDC on the tab, onto the damper. Do the same thing, opposite rotation (CCW)

Now you'll have two temporary marks on the damper, some distance apart. True TDC will be halfway between, and if the original mark on the wheel is correct, that is where it will be.

Also, is there ANY chance that you incorrectly timed the camshaft?

 

[fishy68]

Good advice except "you can't do that" In other words, there's no good way to tell when the piston is at TDC

HERE is how to check your timing marks with the heads on:

Buy or make a "piston stop" like this:

You can make one by cutting around the plug crimp with a hacksaw, then driving out the guts, and tapping the shell for a bolt. Rig a locknut. Length is not critical, so long as it will contact the piston someplace. It's wise to unhook the battery during this

Put the stop in no1, rotate the engine with a wrench GENTLY until it stops. Make a temporary mark right under TDC on the tab, onto the damper. Do the same thing, opposite rotation (CCW)

Now you'll have two temporary marks on the damper, some distance apart. True TDC will be halfway between, and if the original mark on the wheel is correct, that is where it will be.

Also, is there ANY chance that you incorrectly timed the camshaft?

The OP sounded fairly knowledgeable so I figured he'd know to use a piston stop to properly locate TDC.

 

[clifftt]

Get the piston at TDC and see where the balancer mark is pointing. It should be pointing right at zero. If not either the outer ring on the balancer slipped or the engine has the wrong combination of balancer and timing cover, e.i. old balancer and new t. chain cover or vise versa.

Like Fishy says: Do you have the early timing cover with timing marks on the passenger side of the engine? I think the later one has the marks on the opposite side, although they have the same bolt pattern.

 

[harvenator]

I have the early timing cover with the separate timing tab. That's a neat little tool you made but I don't see the need. If my timing mark is at TDC on the tab and the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug on the distributor then al my mechanicals are in order. I'm wondering of the early motor just doesn't like the later model 2 bbl carb.
Any other ideas?? I have a buddy coming over tomorrow with a spare 4 bbl that I'm going to try. I'll post the outcome.

 

[toolmanmike]

I think what 67Dart273 is getting at is to check the balancer for slipping.

 

[805moparkid]

what adjusting the valves do u grab the balancer and turn???

 

[toolmanmike]

I don't understand what you mean. I use a remote starter switch to bump the engine over to set the valves

 

[67Dart273]

That's a neat little tool you made but I don't see the need. ............... my mechanicals are in order.............

I think what 67Dart273 is getting at is to check the balancer for slipping.

Xatcly


"Back when" I've found a number of balancers that were off. It seems to me that these used to tend to be 352/ 390 Fords.


You have mentioned the carb at least twice. What is it that makes you think the carb is at fault? It sure could be, I guess. Is it pretty dirty? Probably one thing I'd do is pull the idle screws and squirt some carb cleaner down the screw holes. Be careful of your eyes. You should be able to get some of it to bubble up through the venturi assembly in the carb throat

 

[moper]

What cylinder pressures does it have? Sounds to me like the cam is off, but I'm not a fan of adaptors either so try the carb if you can first.

 

[harvenator]

We changed the carb to a 4 bbl and timed it by ear as the timing mark is on the mark static but the engine seems to like a whole lot more advance than 5 degrees. It starts and runs just fine. I've still got to put a new boot and universals on the driveshaft before taking it out for a drive.
I think this is going to be a strong little motor.
Thanks for all your help.