New wheels , Wrong lugs

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Oldmanmopar

Oldmanmopar

Going left turning right
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Found a problem with new wheel and lug combos.

Bought new 4.00 bolt circle Cragars. 6's and 8's. They were listed to take 60 degree conical lugs for the 6" wheels and shank lugs for the 8" wheels. So we Bought 20 of each lefts and rights.

Well A barracuda pulled in the shop and he said his new wheels came loose. Torque thrust D's . He said they were Conical lugs and that is what they call for It ruined the seats on the wheels and said he has to keep tightening them.

I opened my new Torque thrust and they too did have a conical seat . So I opened my front Cragars and they too had conical seats as the lugs they called for . I opened the rear wheels and saw they too had conical seats but when we bought them we were told they took shank lugs. So I Called Summit.

They said I got the correct lugs as the manufacture suggested. My question was why the front and rear wheels took different lugs when the looked exactly the same? . After an hour of no answer and no satisfaction. they gave me Cragars number.

The Rep. person told me the same thing. So I was on Summit racing web site and watched a video of lug nuts that they have in their wheel section.

Come to learn that the new wheels now take a "conical shank lug" I called sumit back tonight and they were apologetic for the misinformation. They sent the shop and email and were so happy we found the mistake in the suggested lug for all their wheels.

Now I have to call them back to get a full refund which they would not give me prior to this and they will send me all the correct "conical shank lugs" .

So if you buy a wheel that usually would take a shank lug in the past such as aluminum style or Cragars did. They now state they take a conical lug? They don't . They take a" precision fit conical shank lug" They no longer use washers and the have a 60 degree fit with a shank to go through the wheel. Do not install them with just conical standard lug nuts as they suggest on their site.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Found a problem with new wheel and lug combos.

Bought new 4.00 bolt circle Cragars. 6's and 8's. They were listed to take 60 degree conical lugs for the 6" wheels and shank lugs for the 8" wheels. So we Bought 20 of each lefts and rights.

Well A barracuda pulled in the shop and he said his new wheels came loose. Torque thrust D's . He said they were Conical lugs and that is what they call for It ruined the seats on the wheels and said he has to keep tightening them.

I opened my new Torque thrust and they too did have a conical seat . So I opened my front Cragars and they too had conical seats as the lugs they called for . I opened the rear wheels and saw they too had conical seats but when we bought them we were told they took shank lugs. So I Called Summit.

They said I got the correct lugs as the manufacture suggested. My question was why the front and rear wheels took different lugs when the looked exactly the same? . After an hour of no answer and no satisfaction. they gave me Cragars number.

The Rep. person told me the same thing. So I was on Summit racing web site and watched a video of lug nuts that they have in their wheel section.

Come to learn that the new wheels now take a "conical shank lug" I called sumit back tonight and they were apologetic for the misinformation. They sent the shop and email and were so happy we found the mistake in the suggested lug for all their wheels.

Now I have to call them back to get a full refund which they would not give me prior to this and they will send me all the correct "conical shank lugs" .

So if you buy a wheel that usually would take a shank lug in the past such as aluminum style or Cragars did. They now state they take a conical lug? They don't . They take a" precision fit conical shank lug" They no longer use washers and the have a 60 degree fit with a shank to go through the wheel. Do not install them with just conical standard lug nuts as they suggest on their site.
Click to expand...
Any possibility of pictures to show the difference,asking for a friend?
 
I still have a set of the original Cragar lugs for the 5x4 s/s wheels that were on my Dart
 
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Oldmanmopar said:
trying to post video . Click on Video on this attachment. These are the new Conical shank lug nuts were are not being told we needed. Your wheels will bolt on with a regular conocal but will come loose
These are the conical /shank style
Cragar A-27802-4 Cragar Wheel Lug Nuts | Summit Racing


Click to expand...


i run something similar on my US indies

they claim to take the conical lugs but i prefer these

20210610_185422-jpg.jpg



the seating is the same but it more then doubles my thread engagement
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Found a problem with new wheel and lug combos.

Bought new 4.00 bolt circle Cragars. 6's and 8's. They were listed to take 60 degree conical lugs for the 6" wheels and shank lugs for the 8" wheels. So we Bought 20 of each lefts and rights.

Well A barracuda pulled in the shop and he said his new wheels came loose. Torque thrust D's . He said they were Conical lugs and that is what they call for It ruined the seats on the wheels and said he has to keep tightening them.

I opened my new Torque thrust and they too did have a conical seat . So I opened my front Cragars and they too had conical seats as the lugs they called for . I opened the rear wheels and saw they too had conical seats but when we bought them we were told they took shank lugs. So I Called Summit.

They said I got the correct lugs as the manufacture suggested. My question was why the front and rear wheels took different lugs when the looked exactly the same? . After an hour of no answer and no satisfaction. they gave me Cragars number.

The Rep. person told me the same thing. So I was on Summit racing web site and watched a video of lug nuts that they have in their wheel section.

Come to learn that the new wheels now take a "conical shank lug" I called sumit back tonight and they were apologetic for the misinformation. They sent the shop and email and were so happy we found the mistake in the suggested lug for all their wheels.

Now I have to call them back to get a full refund which they would not give me prior to this and they will send me all the correct "conical shank lugs" .

So if you buy a wheel that usually would take a shank lug in the past such as aluminum style or Cragars did. They now state they take a conical lug? They don't . They take a" precision fit conical shank lug" They no longer use washers and the have a 60 degree fit with a shank to go through the wheel. Do not install them with just conical standard lug nuts as they suggest on their site.
Click to expand...
Yall be extra careful with that, Steve, because there are different LENGTH shanks with those lug nuts, too, to match the thickness of the wheel. There's not just "one" length shank, so watch it.
 
diymirage said:
i run something similar on my US indies

they claim to take the conical lugs but i prefer these

View attachment 1715883085


the seating is the same but it more then doubles my thread engagement
Click to expand...
Yeah that's them. Like I said above, there are different length shanks. That's the short shank in your picture. I always knew you were a short shanker anyway.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah that's them. Like I said above, there are different length shanks. That's the short shank in your picture. I always knew you were a short shanker anyway.
Click to expand...
It's not the size of the shank that matters its the wobble of the wheel
 
toolmanmike said:
But only one for Cragar SS wheels. I see the specific ones Steve posted a link for were 7/16" RH and Cragar brand recommended by Cragar.
Click to expand...
Correct. But knowing WHAT shank length will prevent you from getting the wrong lug nuts. Who's to say some lug nut doesn't pack the wrong lug nuts?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Correct. But knowing WHAT shank length will prevent you from getting the wrong lug nuts. Who's to say some lug nut doesn't pack the wrong lug nuts?
Click to expand...
Thread size will get you the correct nut. There's only 1 7/16 nut. It sounds like Summit contacted Cragar and the 7/16 nut is for the small bolt wheels. Only 1 choice.
 
toolmanmike said:
Thread size will get you the correct nut. There's only 1 7/16 nut. It sounds like Summit contacted Cragar and the 7/16 nut is for the small bolt wheels. Only 1 choice.
Click to expand...
Ok. Then just ignore my info.
 
diymirage said:
i run something similar on my US indies

they claim to take the conical lugs but i prefer these

View attachment 1715883085


the seating is the same but it more then doubles my thread engagement
Click to expand...


They are all claiming they take conical lugs, or shank lugs, They are idiots. You chose the correct lug. I listened to them and bought 20 conical and 20 shank.

Now I have 40 liugs we don't need. Even though I followed their recommendation . They told me I bought them so its on me. They only go by what they are told by the wheel manufacture.

We should have tried the lugs when Todd received them but I never would have thought after buying both styles neither would be correct.

I cannot wait to get them on the phone Monday. We have deliveries every day from Summit at the shop. They did not hear the end of this . Its their mistake not the customers. How many guys lost a wheel or destroyed them and summit or others blamed it on the installer. You caught the issue many others didn't . Luckily that guy came here with his damage and mentioned it or I would not have know about the new style lug I actually need.

This is why I started this thread, To make the public aware
 
Oldmanmopar said:
They are all claiming they take conical lugs, or shank lugs, They are idiots. You chose the correct lug. I listened to them and bought 20 conical and 20 shank.

Now I have 40 liugs we don't need. Even though I followed their recommendation . They told me I bought them so its on me. They only go by what they are told by the wheel manufacture.

We should have tried the lugs when Todd received them but I never would have thought after buying both styles neither would be correct.

I cannot wait to get them on the phone Monday. We have deliveries every day from Summit at the shop. They did not hear the end of this . Its their mistake not the customers. How many guys lost a wheel or destroyed them and summit or others blamed it on the installer. You caught the issue many others didn't . Luckily that guy came here with his damage and mentioned it or I would not have know about the new style lug I actually need.

This is why I started this thread, To make the public aware
Click to expand...
I will say this, i ran mine for years with the conicals on it, but at some point decided to splurge and got 20 matching lugnuts

Because of the thickness of the rims it made sense to get these

(I dont believe they center on them like the shank lugs did)
 
No reason on earth 3 companies cannot coordinate "nuts!!" Ridiculous. Steve I hope you rip these people a new one!
 
I use conical on my craggars and do not have this problem. had them for 2 years now and use the car daily. Mine are SS

WhatsApp Image 2021-07-09 at 8.17.30 PM.jpeg
 
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I bought a used set of torq thrust d 5x4 for my cuda with no lug nuts , can you tell me what I need to get for them ?
 
67Dart273 said:
No reason on earth 3 companies cannot coordinate "nuts!!" Ridiculous. Steve I hope you rip these people a new one!
Click to expand...
I bought a used set of 4 small bolt pattern (4") 14" Cragars for my '66 Barracuda about 15 years ago, so if these wheels have changed since then, my information won't do you any good, I needed 10 lh & 10 rh 7/16 lugs/washers. The Cragar part # is 09004-4 for LH thread. With that info, the RH thread part # should be easy to identify. IMHO, these lug nuts aren't all that well made, but they work fine for me.

Cragar lug nuts.jpg


cragar .JPG
 
I was not aware of American Torque Thrust wheels coming in the 4" pattern. I've been looking for these. Where can they be had?
 
There are definitely different shank lengths.

I've been trying to find nuts for my 1970 vintage Motor Wheel Spyders.

I can tell you ET wheel nuts have too long of a shank.

Finding the specs for the shank length is not real easy, either.

Grrr.
 
I have a 1966 Barracuda. Due to disk brake change on the front my cragar wheels took a conical lug nut. However. on the back I am still 5x4 with cragar wheel that take a shank lug with a washer. The fronts went on very well. But, the lugs on the back would tighten up and leave the wheel loose. Had to mill off the end of each shank nut to get them to tight the wheel. Yes I did talk to cragar and they were no help.
 
diymirage said:
i run something similar on my US indies

they claim to take the conical lugs but i prefer these
As long as the wheel center flange is thick enough the shank does not bottom on the brake disc or drum. Check by holding the nut seated on the conical part of the rim and look at the hub side. Shank part should be 1/8" in the wheel or a bit more.

View attachment 1715883085


the seating is the same but it more then doubles my thread engagement
Click to expand...
 
PistolGrip said:
I bought a used set of 4 small bolt pattern (4") 14" Cragars for my '66 Barracuda about 15 years ago, so if these wheels have changed since then, my information won't do you any good, I needed 10 lh & 10 rh 7/16 lugs/washers. The Cragar part # is 09004-4 for LH thread. With that info, the RH thread part # should be easy to identify. IMHO, these lug nuts aren't all that well made, but they work fine for me.

View attachment 1715885217

View attachment 1715885221
Click to expand...
For Drag racing and probably any other racing, those are banned at least until you have 1/2" or more stud sticking out past the wheel center. Many of those the stud only comes flush at best with the wheel hub. There is not much meat at the washer area of the shank to hold the wheel. For street they may work fine but a higher HP car and especially a manual shift can fracture at the washer area and you lose a wheel.
Years ago I had to do the brakes on farmer Brown's Dodge car. The wheels had been on for so long they were rusted solid. I put penetrating oil on every day for a week but still broke every stud. No problem getting the RH thread studs but had a heck of a time getting the proper size LH studs. The shank part with the knurle was either too small or too big or the wrong length. Should have just converted to all RH but Mopars of the day all had LH studs, which would be an issue if the owner did not tell any other mechanic that that had been done.
 
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