No power to starter relay.

-
Thanks, 67Dart273! That's exactly the kind of detail I need. She appears to be fine now but yesterday, I experienced the below answers to your diagnosis questions.

test light?
multimeter?
test clip leads?
service manual?
wiring diagrams?

All of the above!

A clear idea in your head of the "wiring path" that is the source, the path, the terminations along the way that the starter relay takes?

I believe I can read the diagram well enough to trace the wires.

You can download service manuals in this thread....

That's where I got what I have :)

THE PATH of the relay wiring. This is where I'm vague.

Is the start signal actually "leaving" the ignition switch? Is it coming through the switch connector? Yes

Is it getting "out" into the engine bay through the bulkhead? No

Originally, it went through the contacts of the hated reset device for the seat belt interlock, and then went on to the start relay "push on" connector, yellow, yellow tracer, whatever. Is this the connector under the seat? I'll have to locate that.

You need to check this. "Catch" it when it failed, and check it with your light. START clear out at the relay and see whether you get a "start" signal. I don't understand the "clear out at the relay"

HINT.............Check BOTH small push on terminals for power in "start." ONE should go to the transmission NSS. IF YOU HAVE power on that terminal, then the NS switch, or wiring, or connections is / are bad, or the linkage is not engaging the switch. I'll do this after I locate it.

To put that another way, the push on terminal going to the NSS should NOT show power, as it should be grounded in park or neutral You mean the one on the transmission?

EASY way to eliminate the switch TEMPORARILY. ID the start wire (yellow) and then remove the REMAINING "push on" connector at the relay, and GROUND that relay terminal with a clip lead. CAREFUL as now it'll start in any gear. Does it work? Concentrate on the NSS wire and circuit. That would be the "G" terminal on the starter relay, correct? Gound to chassis or battery -?

OK so what? You don't? have start power at the relay yellow? Where to check next? Pick the EASY TO GET TO places. Crawl under the dash, and access the ignition switch connector, check that wire at the dash harness side of the switch connector......Power? Yes

Yes? Then look for trouble at the bulkhead connector I think this may be the culprit.

No? Check the ignition switch side of the switch connector. WIGGLE the connector. Wiggle the key. No power? It's the switch at fault. All is good here.

Let's say we are OK clear out to the bulkhead connector.........what then.......? You don't? have power at the yellow relay wire at the relay? That was the original problem.

LOOK AGAIN for that reset box under the dash. Maybe it's there and you missed it. Maybe someone removed it BUT MAYBE they did a crappy job bypassing it, and the wires are taped together, crappy connection.

Here, the relay/ reset........

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/...ad.php?t=14304

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/...p?p=1969624169

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/...d.php?t=292463

Great! The pics are just what I need!

More........

So you've checked for power at the relay, you've checked the NSS is grounded, what then?

MAYBE the relay is failing. sometimes they get rusted inside, etc, or just corroded conacts. Hey it's old. I don't like "throwing parts" at a problem, but intermittent troubles are always.........troublesome. Consider buying a relay. All Chrysler 4 terminal start relays work the same. The brackets can be different. Had a new relay already so went ahead and installed it yesterday. Still no start then. But this morning started up no problem and half a dozen different times today.

I can read the wiring diagram well enough to trace wires and find connections. My weakness is in understanding the path the current is taking. I knew that the relay was triggered across the two bottom terminals thereby engaging the circuit providing power to the starter solenoid, I just didn't know how it was triggered and from what source. Your detailed instructions are perfect and have explained the start circuit very simply for me. Thanks!
 
Glad to see Del posting again.

Excellent advice he has given you. Wish I had the wisdom and patience to lay it out the way he did.

He has also quitley eluded that you must post specifics. My advice is that you had your tranny rebuilt and you did not say you had any previous issues! So do not go overboard analizing it and look to the obvious.
 
My apologies if I was not clear or seemed random. Electrical, for some reason, is difficult for my feeble mind to grasp. I do ok reading the diagrams, tracing wires and current, identifying connectors, connecting accessories, etc. The theory and application is what seems to elude me. 67Dart273 explained that brilliantly in his post so now I have a better understanding of the start circuit and electrical theory and design in general. I bought the Dart last July, for $500. She was a basket case but did run and drive, although poorly and with no lighting functioning, inside and out. Took me 4 months of, practically, daily repairs but got everything working and she's been a reliable daily driver for the past 4 months until the transmission died at the end of February. Just got her back from being rebuilt, drove her home, stopping along the way a couple of times when this happened. Thanks to all for your patience, tolerance and all the help!
 
If it does it again try starting the car in neutral. Or give it a little extra bump in the park position.
 
Tried all that originally before I ever reached for the DVM. Park, neutral, hold the key in start and gently move the shifter full range, then more forcefully. Put key in run, jump at starter and it started. Jump at starter relay and it started. That's what led me down the original start/NSS path. We'll just have to wait for it to happen again so I can follow 67Dart273's excellent write up. Thanks!
 
Don't be afraid to wiggle things. Connector going to ign sw. Bulkhead connector. Easier, lol with 2 people
 
Yeah, that's how I found my first problem when I got the car. Wiggled the main wire into the bulkhead. The clue was when it came loose and there wasn't a terminal on the end. :cheers: Thanks!
 
I didn't quote because it's too confusing at this point. You may have figured this out from the links I posted, the reset relay is under the hood That is what should be removed or bypassed. Just jumper the two "yellowish" wires which are the start signal, and it will be defeated.

I said

To put that another way, the push on terminal going to the NSS should NOT show power, as it should be grounded in park or neutral

You asked

You mean the one on the transmission?

Me...Yes the center pin of the NSS grounds in park or neutral, acting as a ground on the relay coil It does not matter electrically which wire goes to which relay terminal. It's a relay coil

Also keep in mind that "new" parts does not mean "good." Also try to determine (when it quits) if the starter relay clicks or not. May have to roll down window, listen carefully. This might give you /us a clue
 
Thanks! You have been most helpful. Best I can tell, I have no reset relay under the hood. I've seen the photos and that relay is not there. The only things attached to my driver's fender is the starter relay, igntion box and windshield washer bottle. Nothing hanging loose anywhere either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top