.090-.095 Don't see why you couldnt run them with your cam. Here is a link to the instructions
Hughes Engines
Noisy Comp Cam Roller Setup
- Thread starter 512Stroker
- Start date
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Hughes Engines
moper
Well-Known Member
I guess my question is if the builder heard it, and they're getting louder, why are you asking us anything? He should be looking at things. Maybe that should be rhetorical...
In any event any brand conversion-type roller should work on that camshaft. Honestly I would never bother with a hydraulic roller. Either commit and do the solid roller properly (or to my level anyway) or stay flat tappet. Hydraulic rollers were always a compromise. Retrofit hydraulic rollers are even more so. I would look into a set of Howards, or Crane as a second.
In any event any brand conversion-type roller should work on that camshaft. Honestly I would never bother with a hydraulic roller. Either commit and do the solid roller properly (or to my level anyway) or stay flat tappet. Hydraulic rollers were always a compromise. Retrofit hydraulic rollers are even more so. I would look into a set of Howards, or Crane as a second.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
My builder is involved he just happens to be out of town for awhile and this is driving me nuts. He typical does not use roller cams and is a bit perplexed why these lifters dont setup as easily as a flat tappet hyd lifter. It appears that these Comp retro fit rollers require alot more pre load than a typicial hyd lifter. I am back on it this afternoon and I going in deep, wish me luck.
Thanks for the help
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
Per Comp's recommendation today I set them all at one full turn pre load = .068
No difference still clatters like a ***** on start up hot and cold.
Back to Comp and the drawing board on Monday
No difference still clatters like a ***** on start up hot and cold.
Back to Comp and the drawing board on Monday
Bobzilla
Well-Known Member
Are you sure they are quiet after running a while? Forget about the turns on the adjuster. Set them measuring how much the pluger inside the lifter has moved down from their fully extended position. The turns of the adjudters are just estimates.
If they are NEVER as quiet as they should be (basically completely quiet), and you have verified the plunger is down enough by measuring it's actual travel, you either have faulty lifters (one or more) or an oiling problem.
At this point, loosen all adjusters completely, remove all pushrods, and look for the plunger that is not returning to the top.
Last few comps I had do this had internal tolerances too tight, so when the plunger compressed a little at start up, they made a bunch of noise because it would never push back up and take the slack like a hydraulic should.
If a plunger stays down, it's too tight and will be noisy.
If they are NEVER as quiet as they should be (basically completely quiet), and you have verified the plunger is down enough by measuring it's actual travel, you either have faulty lifters (one or more) or an oiling problem.
At this point, loosen all adjusters completely, remove all pushrods, and look for the plunger that is not returning to the top.
Last few comps I had do this had internal tolerances too tight, so when the plunger compressed a little at start up, they made a bunch of noise because it would never push back up and take the slack like a hydraulic should.
If a plunger stays down, it's too tight and will be noisy.
There is no conflicting information on the preload for these lifters! This man is right! I've had these SOB's rattle until I set the preload .000"-.004". Doesn't anyone but Rob and myself search out and read the instructions? If they rattle there is something else wrong besides the lifters.
http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Instructions/Files/COMP4-115.pdf
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
I am listening and I did read the instructions.
I called Comp this morning and spoke to Tech named AJ. He verified that the 8920 hyd roller lift is NOT a Pro Magnum Series lifter and further stated that COMP does not produce retro fit Pro Magnum lifters for the LA block.
He also emailed me the installation instructions for the 8920 lifter which I followed to the T. Did NOT work still clatters bad.
Do I believe that these lifter need more pre load - YES
Do I believe these lifters a junk - YES, they will not even stay pumped up for ten minutes when hot, I timed it.
With the engine cold you can rock the rocker arms back and fourth for the stroke of the hydraulic portion of the lifter by hand, like there is zero oil retained in the lifter. But they do pump up quickly when you start the engine and then appear to sound and function fine. The whole problem comes down to the lifters bleeding off rapidly when at rest.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
Man this messed up, now I have two sets of instructions from Comp that both state they are for the 8920 lifter. But give to totally different installation instruction for pre load Zero - 1/8 turn vs one full turn.
You guy's may be right and I here what your saying. How does the lighter pre load keep them pumped up when at rest?
Now I am really lost
moper
Well-Known Member
Settle down, Francis... The only place those lifters are referenced as Pro Magnums is that paper. If the lifter bores were measured ok, what else can it be? Rev up that crystal ball...lol
Summit, Jegs and almost every other online retailer lists them as Pro Magnums as well.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
This is EXACTLY why I never use hydraulic lifters on roller cams.
If it was my deal, I'd junk the hydraulic lifters and use a set of SOLID roller lifters on it.
Lash them at .004 cold and leave them alone. It will make more power and live longer.
Hydraulic rollers suck.
If it was my deal, I'd junk the hydraulic lifters and use a set of SOLID roller lifters on it.
Lash them at .004 cold and leave them alone. It will make more power and live longer.
Hydraulic rollers suck.
famous bob
mopar misfit
I HAVE COMPCAMS 292 EXTREME SOLID ROLLER IN MY 505, U CAN VERY WELL HEAR IT, BUT NOT NEAR AS LOUD AS THE HYD. ROLLER WAS IN THE 406 SBC.
I AM RUNNING THE LIFTERS THAT WERE SOLD BY MRL, I THINK THEY ARE MOREL, THEY HAVE FORCED OIL TO THE ROLLERS.
Disregard caps---I cant type worth a----
Amen brother! I would never use a hydraulic roller lifter in any of my personal engines. They are only installed when the owner demands it, and then I warn them we may have loads of problems making them happy with the hydraulic lifters. We then generally settle on solids when I say, "Okay hydraulics it is, but you're going to cough up $800 to bush the lifter bores."
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
I hear what you are saying.
I am going to contact Comp and see if they will provide a set of solid rollers.
Before I go that route, is there anything wrong with Comp's solid roller lifters?
And can they be run in the stock LA block oiling system?
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
- The Tech at Comp told me to preload should be .050 - .070
- I set them all at .068 which coincidentally equals one full turn of the adjuster.
- All lifters were checked during adjustment procedure and were found to be free in travel for the full stroke of the plunger.
- Yes they are OK when running, I wont call the quiet, just OK.
- The problem is they bleed of quickly hot or cold.
Junk
I don't think you can just switch the lifters.. cam has to be ground for solid lifters also.
I cannot speak for Rosey but I have run many hydraulic cams with solid lifters.
Some of Comp Cams roller cams use the same lobes for both solid and hydraulic. I believe these may be the tight lash solids, though I didn't ask that at the time the Comp Cams Engineer told me about them.
And I don't really care because I design all my own cams from the lobe catalog and have them grind what I want.
I've never had a problem with solids on a hydraulic when I kept the lash tight like Rosey said. It does get touchy with very tight lash and aluminum heads because the lash can grow to unacceptable limits when hot or hold the valves open when cold.
I have found that the Comp Cams Techline doesn't always have the sharpest Crayons in the box and I never call them for a 'recommendation', but only for clarifications on part numbers, what comes in this box, or something simple.
You would think that preload would be something simple. I told the techline that the preload they had given me was different from their printed instructions, but not to worry, I'd figure it out for myself. I then abandoned the Comp Cams Techline Crayons.
Some of Comp Cams roller cams use the same lobes for both solid and hydraulic. I believe these may be the tight lash solids, though I didn't ask that at the time the Comp Cams Engineer told me about them.
And I don't really care because I design all my own cams from the lobe catalog and have them grind what I want.
I've never had a problem with solids on a hydraulic when I kept the lash tight like Rosey said. It does get touchy with very tight lash and aluminum heads because the lash can grow to unacceptable limits when hot or hold the valves open when cold.
I have found that the Comp Cams Techline doesn't always have the sharpest Crayons in the box and I never call them for a 'recommendation', but only for clarifications on part numbers, what comes in this box, or something simple.
You would think that preload would be something simple. I told the techline that the preload they had given me was different from their printed instructions, but not to worry, I'd figure it out for myself. I then abandoned the Comp Cams Techline Crayons.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
Iron X heads - shouldn't be a lash problem.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
That's one of the question I have already emailed to Comp.
famous bob
mopar misfit
THATS WHAT I THOT, I WAS GETTING READY TO ASK YELLOWROSE ABOUT THAT. ALTHO I HAVE HEARD OF SUPERSTOCK RACERS RUNNING SOLIDS ON A HYD CAM FOR MORE PERFORMANCE.
Definitely depends on who you get on the tech line... if you can push the lifters down by hand they are definitely junk. (I had this happened on an olds with a flat tappet COMP cam years ago.) Something is wrong with the check valve. I have heard of people running solids on hydraulic I just haven't done it. If comp says it's good then great.
One other thing to consider. If this is a street car that will see a lot of miles you may want to go for the Isky (or other) solid bushed roller lifters. With long term use solid lifters can pound the needle bearings out of the lifters. (Perhaps this is mitigated with the tight lash lifters???)
Anyway lots of people are running hydraulic rollers with no issues, you just tend to hear about the problem ones ( there very well could be more issues with a HR I just don't know the numbers vs others.) I'd also talk to some other lifter companies like the Morel guys I linked to and someone else mentioned, possibly Isky or Crane.
My 2c. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
One other thing to consider. If this is a street car that will see a lot of miles you may want to go for the Isky (or other) solid bushed roller lifters. With long term use solid lifters can pound the needle bearings out of the lifters. (Perhaps this is mitigated with the tight lash lifters???)
Anyway lots of people are running hydraulic rollers with no issues, you just tend to hear about the problem ones ( there very well could be more issues with a HR I just don't know the numbers vs others.) I'd also talk to some other lifter companies like the Morel guys I linked to and someone else mentioned, possibly Isky or Crane.
My 2c. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Yes, you can run solid roller lifters on hydraulic roller cores. Where do you think they "tight lash" solid rollers come from.
I did it all the time. When you could first buy retro hydraulic rollers for anything I was big on them. Any street/strip car got them. I was gung ho on them. After awhile I came to detest them. I still do. If I have to run a hydraulic roller I have paperwork for the buyer to sign. And date.
Either run a SFT or use a SRT and be done. Hydraulics in ANY form are for your wife and mother. IMHO, if you can't lash valves quickly and easily, either learn how to do it or get a Prius.
How in the hell we went from my generation who either were sissies and drove their mommies Honda or guys who were my friends who couldn't wait to ditch the squish lifter for solids has gone to the majority of us wanting to put the valve covers on and never look at it, yet you want 600 hp, at 2800 RPM, so you can run a 2.73 gear and muffle it down so it sounds like an electric car.
None of this is directed at the OP in particular, or anyone here in general. Just my observations of what I've seen across my life.
Rant over.
I did it all the time. When you could first buy retro hydraulic rollers for anything I was big on them. Any street/strip car got them. I was gung ho on them. After awhile I came to detest them. I still do. If I have to run a hydraulic roller I have paperwork for the buyer to sign. And date.
Either run a SFT or use a SRT and be done. Hydraulics in ANY form are for your wife and mother. IMHO, if you can't lash valves quickly and easily, either learn how to do it or get a Prius.
How in the hell we went from my generation who either were sissies and drove their mommies Honda or guys who were my friends who couldn't wait to ditch the squish lifter for solids has gone to the majority of us wanting to put the valve covers on and never look at it, yet you want 600 hp, at 2800 RPM, so you can run a 2.73 gear and muffle it down so it sounds like an electric car.
None of this is directed at the OP in particular, or anyone here in general. Just my observations of what I've seen across my life.
Rant over.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
Cool, I dont have a problem setting valves, I just thought I would make life a little easier, that's what happens when you get old and half crippled up.
Who's solid roller do you like for a LA small block, street setup, 442 Hp corrected at the flywheel, naturally aspirated on pump gas?
Thanks for the help you Guys on this forum rock.
I don't think you will find anyone on the techline that is going to say, "Ohfersure, run solids on our hydraulic cams!"
If you have to do a lot of valve lash adjustments on your solid cam, you are using ill fitted or cheap components, or poor technique.
If you have to do a lot of valve lash adjustments on your solid cam, you are using ill fitted or cheap components, or poor technique.
If you have a lifter that bleeds down quickly, how is more preload going to help in a noisy start up situation? With more preload it is going to push more oil out of the lifter during rest when the engine is shut off. Then on fire up as the lifter gets on the heel of the cam, the engine is going to have to push more oil back into the lifter to remove what now may be as much as .090" lash.
More preload may only work where you have so much preload you have bottomed out the hydraulics in the lifter and have almost a solid lifter now. Works great in things like the Engine Master contests where hydraulic lifters are mandated.
More preload may only work where you have so much preload you have bottomed out the hydraulics in the lifter and have almost a solid lifter now. Works great in things like the Engine Master contests where hydraulic lifters are mandated.
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