Not Fast, just "Less Slow"

[KosmicKuda]

Well...I always wanted a Valiant and always wanted a /6. So I bought a 64 Valiant convertible recently that was last run in 1982. (having a droptop is just bonus points for me) 225 and 3 on the tree.

The description of the car said something like"spins freely but needs minor electrical work and a carb rebuild"
It took 6 weeks to finally get it here and 3 weeks into it I of course bought a rebuild kit for the carb. (I'm so naive)

It showed up late one rainy night in October on the back of a car hauler from 4 or 5 states away. Put it in the back of the garage, dried it off and checked it over a little. Next night I go out to the garage with my compression gauge to get an idea of the engine condition. Well the engine would not turn with the starter. Hmm, I fool around with it and finally take the starter out, put 12 V to it and the solenoid moves but the starter motor doesn't spin. I rig up something on the damper to so I can turn it with a pry bar but still it wouldn't turn.

After removing the valve cover and seeing all the sludge I say this thing is coming out. So I pull it and throw it on a stand. I got a ridge reamer and did the 2 holes I could get to w/o turning the crank. Even with 2 pistons out,no head and no timing chain it still wouldn't turn with an 18" breaker bar. I can't explain how I did it other than I took off a couple rod caps, rotated the crank a little, ridge reamed 2 more holes, then did the last 2. I find out 5 of the 6 wrist pins were frozen in the pistons. Only #1 moved freely. Also, I had a hard time removing the lifters because of all the build-up. So I think the combination of the 5 frozen rods, the sticky lifters and the sticky rockers are what prevented me from turning it over.

Anyway, 2 Saturdays ago I dropped the block, crank, valve cover and oil pan off at a machine shop. He's an old school one man shop, probably close to 70. I had measured the bores and saw .006-.008 wear on two of the cylinders. There was a broken top ring on #1 and all the rings are carboned into place anyway. The bearings look really good with no abnormal wear patterns. I told him check it over and we'll talk about what it needs. I want to buy the parts and do the assembly but I need to know where we're going.

This morning I got a call on my cell and Karl the engine guy said he had a fire in his shop last Friday and he's out of business. Oh and, come pick up your stuff.

Ironically, he had my block in his oven to get cleaned but it hadn't been baked yet. So my junk was saved from a fire by being in an oven. :wack: I'll find out tomorrow if I lost the oil pan, main caps, and valve cover.

So my plans are to get it running and stopping by Spring. This car has ZERO brakes. NADA, nothing, not even the parking brake works. I'll get to that later. I don't want a race car, but I can't put a completely stock engine back into this thing. I just can't. I wanted to drive it as a survivor but I can't rebuild the engine without painting it. And now that the engine bay is open I have to clean that. It's going to be a driver so it's getting a dual master cylinder as a minimum. Man, I wish I hadn't sold my spare K-H discs. It's going to look mostly stock underhood but I'm thinking of a slightly bigger cam, a little porting, etc. It currently has four 13" Mud & Snow tires on it dated 1978 so that can't be good. I have a set of 14" SBP Rallyes doing nothing but taking up space so that may happen.

Lunch time is over so I'll continue next week as I'm off until then.

 

[4spdcuda66]

That's a nice little Valiant you've got there! Good luck with the build. I'm glad your stuff survived the fire!

 

[KosmicKuda]

Pictures showing a little of the car and engine condition as received. I've been very busy with a lot of life things and don't find the time to work on it as much as I want. I'll have more in next post.

 

[sireland67]

Looks like you have a solid body.
I would also consider finding another engine.

 

[doug 371]

ya there should be tons of slants available

 

[KosmicKuda]

Well, the first place I took my engine parts to had a fire less than a week later. The fire was on a Friday and he called me the following Monday to come pick up my stuff. I asked for a recommendation on another shop. He gave me a couple names and I checked them out on my day off later in the week.

I did not feel good about the first place I visited. It was pretty messy and it looked like they didn't have any business. The other place was 50 miles away so I jumped on the turnpike to check them out. Right away I liked this guy a LOT. He's in his 70's and has been doing this since 1962. He said his sons had /6's growing up and he told the proverbial story about how they were going to junk a car so they put a brick on a Valiant gas pedal and stood around waiting for it to blow up. It never did.

I asked for a tour and his son took me around while the ol' man ate lunch. (his house is right beside the shop) All his equipment seemed to be Sunnen and there were miscellaneous blocks, cranks and cranks everywhere so I got a chance to check out his work. He does cars, diesels, tractors, motorcycles, snowmobiles, Harleys, just about anything new or old. He knew about the fire and the owner of the burned shop. I felt really good about this guy so I told him I'd get my stuff to him in a few days.

On the way home, I stopped at the burned out shop and the owner had just finished talking with an insurance adjuster. Besides the loss of equipment and tools, there were 3 or so customer's car that were total losses. sadly, the firemen did as much damage as the flames. The interior was pitch black because the electricity had been turned off but here's a picture of my 225 and parts covered in soot. That's my block, crank, rods/pistons, valve cover and oil pan in there somewhere. The late 30's GM coupe was his personal car that he worked on in his spare time. I told him I'd be back to get my junk in a few days but he was friends with the owner of my "new" shop and called him and before I knew it, new guy agreed to send a truck over to pick up everything. I waited around and helped load my block and parts into the back of the truck just to be sure they got everything.

 

[KosmicKuda]

I got the machined block from the "new" machinist after a few weeks. Turns out he does the actual machining for the burned out shop anyway so I eliminated the middle man.
The Engine-tech kit came with:
+.040 Silv-o-lite pistons, Hastings moly rings, King bearings, unknown gasket kit.
Cost was:
Strip and degrease block--$90
Bore/hone 6 cylinders--$132
Degrease/polish crank--$36
Press rods from pistons, clean rods, assemble--$60
Degrease oilpan and valve cover--$20
Total--$338

Engine-tech RCCR225P engine kit--$248.80

Yep that's an oily sock tied around the oil fill cap and that's a thick layer of sludge in the bottom of the pan.

I don't mind spending the money on the lowly slant. I want a good reliable foundation that I don't have to worry about for the next 50 years.

 

[cudajames]

great story, motor saved from fire by being in the oven. And lots of helpful people

Great stuff

You could look to hyper-pak the motor - even though Chrysler dropped it before the 64 model year

 

[Keith Mopar]

What a cool story and adventure. The Valiant looks amazing and it will defiantly be a cool driver when your done. The little upgrades will look good and just make it a bette driver..

 

[65 Dartman]

Great story and happy ending to it. Will be following along on your build.

 

[KosmicKuda]

Good news! called my machinist yesterday and talked to his wife and son. I was worried the owner was having serious health issues because he's a cancer survivor and I haven't been able to get a hold of him. He's just getting over a hernia operation and he's just starting to get mobile again. BTDT last year. Paul is in in his 70's though.

The other good news is that his son found my 12 rocker arms on his ol' man's desk while I was talking to him on the phone. Just where he left them. I had picked up my rebuilt head on a Sunday (his house is right next door) and showed Paul my rockers. They were worn a bit so he said he'd reface them and just left them there without any ID.

I had taken my head there disassembled and he just went ahead and reassembled it. One good thing is he checked the springs and shimmed them all to the same installed height.

Labor Costs:
Degrease oil pan and valve cover--$20
Degrease and mag cyl head--$32
Install and size guides--12 X $6 = $72
Install hardened exhaust seats--6 X $15 = $90
Grind seats and valves--$66
Surface head 0.080--$80
wash and assemble head--$34
Total $394

Parts cost:
Valve guides--12 X $1.46 = $17.52
1045/70707 Exhaust seat--6 X $6.25 = $37.50
OS-530 Intake seals--6 X $0.44 = $2.64
OS-254 Exhaust Valve Seals 6 X $1.22 = $7.32
102 Spring Shims--12 X $0.54 = $6.48
Total $71.46

Plus taxes. Always taxes.


It's really been tough to find time but I'm back on it. Two night ago I was too nervous to watch the Cavs playoff game so I went down to the garage and took the head out of the plastic bag, disassembled it, put my muffs with the built in radio on my big head and started porting. I just CAN'T put it back on untouched.

 

[Teeth & Tires]

Sweet, sweet Valiant.

I like this guy...took out the motor / now I have to clean the bay. Lol!

 

[KosmicKuda]

I have a LOT of things going on in my life right now and the Val is in the background until things get sorted out.
But, I am making progress, just not assembling much. The short block is pretty much together except I had a several week delay because the Cloyes timing set included in the Enginetech was WAAAAY too loose (IMO) when assembled. I just got my new Rollmaster double roller yesterday but have not tried it yet.

All this talk about distributor and oil pump gear failure has me paranoid so I'll probably do the squirter tube mod to shoot oil directly on those parts. Have the tubing and pipe plug prepped but need to drill and tap the block.

Sometimes I take parts to work and stay after to bead blast or clean parts. I also can powder coat now so anything you see in the pix with black color on them is powder. Except for the red parts which are painted engine color from a spray can. I wanted to check the color against some virgin color hidden from 51 years of exposure. The piles are divided up into newly purchased parts and refurbished parts. The little bags are full of hardware that has been cleaned and/or blasted.

Now I just found out recently that the Airtex brand is earning a bad reputation and my new water and fuel pumps are Airtex. Oh well....they're going on as they're easily accessible when they fail.

More later.

 

[mvh]

Hi, thanks for pointing me to your thread. I guess I did know you had picked up a Valiant, but I'd lost track of the story. Keep plugging away, you'll get there. I kind of hesitate to ask how's the rest of the car, seeing how the motor and brakes were neglected.

 

[mvh]

I notice your shop prices in Ohio are a lot cheaper than out here. My 273 heads ran almost $500 each, IIRC.

 

[barbee6043]

Rome wasn't built overnight.... it was over along holiday weekend with some union and non union help!???????

 

[txstang84]

Cool little Val--and a vert!

Depending on some variables and how long before you get around to it, I might have a core KH brake set up for you...I have a set in storage in Texas...depending on where I get my next assignment to, I might be there in a few months, and I could sell them to you. If you're interested, lemme know.

 

[KosmicKuda]

I notice your shop prices in Ohio are a lot cheaper than out here. My 273 heads ran almost $500 each, IIRC.

Yeah that's why I will be posting prices as I go along. Just for reference.

As an aside, when I bought my 68 off e-bay from a guy in San Jose, Max was kind enough to put me up in his house for 4 nights while we worked to get it somewhat road-worthy for the trip to Ohio. I left late Thursday afternoon and arrived home about 11PM Monday night. I tell people the most expensive pizza I maybe ever bought was that late Monday night after we had gotten the brakes working. $27 for a large. We took the cuda over to pick it up and I asked Max if he wanted to drive it back to his house. We got in, he started it, put it in gear and no forward momentum ensued. A quick look showed a huge puddle along the curb. A trans cooler hose had gotten loose at the radiator and a lot of trans fluid had leaked out. Max called home, rousting his wife out of bed and she drove over with 3 qts of tranny fluid he had in his garage. Tightened the clamp, put the fluid in and we were rolling again.
Anyway, during the trip, the most expensive gas I bought was in CA at $2.399/gal and it got progressively cheaper as I headed east.

 

[KosmicKuda]

I started with the engine rebuild by taking it to a shop and unfortunately less than a week later, he had a fire and is pretty much out of business. We grabbed my sooty junk and got it over to another place.

PC Automotive, Paul Cole, really cool guy. After he bored and honed my block I took the original head to him and he installed new valve guides, hardened exhaust seats, did a valve job and shimmed the springs to equal height. Because his house is practically attached to the shop, he pretty much works 7 days a week, though not a full day on Saturday and Sunday. So he called me and said the head was done. Oh cool, can I pick it up over the weekend? Yeah, just call first. I call on Saturday and it didn't work out so we arrange for me to pick the head up Sunday. (Easter Sunday) He's alone when I get there and we BS for about an hour. Me trying to learn stuff and him telling me about building race motors back in the day. He said when Dyno Don Nicholson was passing through that he sometimes would drop off heads to get them refreshed. So I show him my slanty rockers and he says he can reface them so I leave them.

A few weeks go by and I call and his wife answers and said Paul had passed away from complications from a hernia operation. Not the usual place for a hernia but in the chest area. After offering my condolences I ease into the subject of my rocker arms. She checks the records and they are not listed in the books. She yells out to his son, Hey Mike do you know anything about some /6 rockers? He gets on the phone and after rummaging around he finds them on Paul's desk, right where he left them that Sunday. Mike said he'd do them in the next couple days so I picked them up the next week. $60/12

I hope this car does not have bad Karma. First a fire, now Paul passing away. When I picked up the rockers, I talked to his wife for awhile and she told me the details of his passing. I asked how old he was and she said 78. I wish I could have known him longer. He really knew his work and was a very cool guy.

Of course I took the heads apart and did a little porting.

 

[jimjimjimmy]

cool thread :happy1::happy1:

 

[KosmicKuda]

I posted the following in the /6 section but I wanted to keep things together:

It took awhile but I bought another new Cloyes timing set from Rock Auto. Opened the box, took a look and it was the same deal as the set that came with Enginetech rebuild kit. Got an RMA and returned it along with a distributor gear that was supposed to fit a /6 but really was for a Ford 3.0 V-6. 14 teeth when it should be 13. Their mistake but I still had to pay return shipping…huh? Bought two of the correct gears from NAPA for less than $4 each.

Did some on-line research. One Double Roller set was about $210. Ouch that wouldn’t be good for my budget rebuild. Thought about getting a Comp set from Summit for $40 and I could pick it up in person. Then somehow I came across a Rollmaster set made by Romac. $99.54 at buydart.com. (actually came from AD Performance Eng) Well I called them and spoke to the CA surfer dude and ordered it. $14 shipping. Took about a week because Fedex delivered during the day and no one was there to sign for it. The third try was on Saturday and here it is. The saggy one is the new Cloyes silent chain.
Installed, it is tighter than…well…it’s pretty tight with no slack. The crank gear has multiple keyways in 2 degree increments to retard or advance the cam. The sprockets are fully machined from steel.

View attachment P1160363.jpg

View attachment P1160614.jpg

 

[txstang84]

Hooahh-nice

 

[mvh]

I just put a new Cloyes set on the 273. Or rather, I did last summer, but it hasn't been run yet. And I ported the heads, too. Man, I get frustrated looking at it sitting there on the stand when all I have to drive is the slanty. Oh well...

 

[KosmicKuda]

I just put a new Cloyes set on the 273. Or rather, I did last summer, but it hasn't been run yet. And I ported the heads, too. Man, I get frustrated looking at it sitting there on the stand when all I have to drive is the slanty. Oh well...

So the 67 is not back on the road yet after getting rear ended?
Do you still have the MGB?
And besides, having a 67 convertible Barracuda as a backup is not a bad thing.

I had my 213,000 mile Neon down for routine maintenance, timing belt, water pump, 2 belt tensioners and PS pump. Great! Good for another 105K. Or so I thought. I finished it on a Saturday morning and went in to change my clothes to run some errands.

When I came back out there was a puddle of brake fluid by the rear tire. Looks like the drum brake adjuster had frozen up allowing the wheel cylinder to over extend and leak fluid. Back on the jack stands for new rear brakes with drums and wheel cylinders.

Drove it to work ONE day, parked it, came back out to cut the grass and WTH? A puddle under the front end. Leaking radiator. Had a hard time finding the correct radiator but finally got it from Rockauto so I'm good again.

My backup vehicle right now is a 98 std cab/std bed 98 Ranger. (only the second Ford I've owned with the other being a 30 Modal A) Man, what a dog, 4 cyl and 5 speed manual. Slowest car I've owned.

All this takes time away from my working on my fun cars and driving the Ranger cut my usable minutes/day for sure O Though I did powder coat some Valiant parts this morning.

SHHH! I'm planning on taking next Monday off strictly to work on the Valiant.

 

[mvh]

So the 67 is not back on the road yet after getting rear ended?
Do you still have the MGB?
And besides, having a 67 convertible Barracuda as a backup is not a bad thing..

True that.

Yeah, copper boy has had some trouble with the shop. Definitely in the slow lane. AFAIK it hasn't been worked on for over a year. But he promises to get it going...

To amuse myself I picked up a 67 MGB roller and now that's in the shop getting metalwork and paint. But it is making progress at least. When it comes out all nice and shiny I get to swap over all the running gear and trim from that rusty red rat. Which will then move on to its next career as a Kia or something. A man only needs one MG.