Now that Centric is gone...what now for Disc brakes with 5x4 SBP

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To be a bit of a spoilsport here, why wouldn't you upgrade to the '73 and up BBP brakes at this point?
A much better selection of wheels are available as well as cheaper parts overall.
And they have better braking power and are stronger to boot.
Sure, you would have to get BBP axles in your rear end and 10'' brakes to match, but overall, you would be better off in the long run.
BTW, I hate SBP anything since I saw the light...
You are not spoilsporting, but you are answering a question I did not ask, or at least assuming that i am doing something that I am not. The primarily reason not to go with BBP is because the factory wheel covers don't fit 15 inch wheels and the exposed lug nuts in the centers are on a 5x4 patterns, and I am restoring it, not making a hotrod or custom or whatever that is called. No shade on those that do, but that is not what I am doing.

The choices I outlined for my build are to keep the original drums at the 4 corners or swap out for the front discs that were available in 1966. I have cheated a little by considering aftermarket front discs, but only if the original stuff is not available and i can still use the original wheels. I only do this as a safety upgrade (that will be essentially hidden behind factory wheels) as I vividly remember the "press and pray" performance of 4 wheel drums in that car, especially on the 2nd stop.

You do you, but do I really have to explain that on this board?
 
Most of these cars ran the original K-H discs for 10 to 20 years before the rotors needed replaced. Just run good organic pads and you or your heirs will never have to replace the rotors. I run the original K-H small bolt discs on all but one Barracuda. Just find a set and do it. Actually, I have also run the original 10 inch drums on the 68 383 Formula S. Firm Feel sells premium brake shoes for them.
See, not having them on this car when I was driving it daily from the 70s to mid 80s I just assumed it was like my Toyota discs where every brake job I am doing new rotors and that once they start to vibrate you have to replace them as new stuff just won't clean up on the brake lathe. I know it wont be my daily driver, but I am used to having rotor warp a lot. My current 08 4Runner has 425K miles on it but you guys are right I will never drive the Barracuda even 5K miles most years, i suspect. I am still thinking about it like I do cars that i put 45K a year on.....

Anyway, a member reached out and I may have the KH set up.... waiting to hear back.
 
Most of these cars ran the original K-H discs for 10 to 20 years before the rotors needed replaced. Just run good organic pads and you or your heirs will never have to replace the rotors. I run the original K-H small bolt discs on all but one Barracuda. Just find a set and do it. Actually, I have also run the original 10 inch drums on the 68 383 Formula S. Firm Feel sells premium brake shoes for them.
With the modern parts are the 4 wheel drums still as fade prone as they once were? Mine are NON-power so i have the worst of the worst set up.
 
They're not gone yet.
Ford and GM are providing operational capital to keep factories going (and supply chains intact) while First Brands goes through Chapter 11 reorganization, the plan for which is pending court approval on May 29th. Not saying some brands won't get sold off, but some will likely get absorbed into "offshore" corporations. Their value lies mostly in name recognition (Autolite, Raybestos, Fram, Trico, etc.), so don't expect any major corporate comebacks here. Ford and GM could conceivably take over some of the operations (if not the names) as part of debt settlement.
Their fate is still ongoing.
None of this helps with 50 year old brake rotor availability, though. But we can hope...
There are a number of stories on this including the one I linked in a reply above. UTG also covered it from the 'old car' end on a video. The risk, as I understand from reading it at least, is that names like cardone and centric failed to get a buyer and just shut down, while trico and fram and such did get interim funding via a buyer The value is in the existing tooling that makes all the stuff that they produce, including the low demand old parts we use. I use cardone half axels for my 4Runner and I am sure the newer stuff like that will get picked up cause there are hundreds of thousands of vehicles that need those half shafts at less that toyota factory price. The fate of the lower volume stuff like the KH Rotors is way less rosy, i suspect. Hope is an unstable place to be... :-)
 
You are not spoilsporting, but you are answering a question I did not ask, or at least assuming that i am doing something that I am not. The primarily reason not to go with BBP is because the factory wheel covers don't fit 15 inch wheels and the exposed lug nuts in the centers are on a 5x4 patterns, and I am restoring it, not making a hotrod or custom or whatever that is called. No shade on those that do, but that is not what I am doing.

The choices I outlined for my build are to keep the original drums at the 4 corners or swap out for the front discs that were available in 1966. I have cheated a little by considering aftermarket front discs, but only if the original stuff is not available and i can still use the original wheels. I only do this as a safety upgrade (that will be essentially hidden behind factory wheels) as I vividly remember the "press and pray" performance of 4 wheel drums in that car, especially on the 2nd stop.

You do you, but do I really have to explain that on this board?
Mine is far from original. I consider it a hot rod and I am retaining the small bolt pattern. So there are many reasons. "I want to" is good enough. lol
 
With the modern parts are the 4 wheel drums still as fade prone as they once were? Mine are NON-power so i have the worst of the worst set up.
Mine are non power 9" drums still and I have them so they stop very well. But I don't haul *** everywhere, either.
 

Summit sells centric rotors and drums. They also carry powerstop drill and sloted rotors also. 11" sbp and 10 drums, and free shipping
 
With the modern parts are the 4 wheel drums still as fade prone as they once were? Mine are NON-power so i have the worst of the worst set up.
yes.

(there's a much longer winded, granular reply but it still boils down to, yes drums are still prone to fade and anybody that tells you otherwise is bullshitting themselves. put the discs on)
 
My only complaint with the replacement Kelsey Hays 4 piston caliper rotors is , the "hat" transition is too big and rubs the dust boots on the pistons. Does anyone know of any replacement rotors made correctly that do not?
 
I ordered the other brand not centric. Friction something

I'll compare them to OEM when they arrive
dynamic friction?

i've used their stuff in our fleet and it's pretty comparable to OE
(modern OE, that is)

they also make some higher end stuff that's quite nice.
 
I ran drum brakes for a while without any problem. But then again I am a very defensive driver, brake shoes or drums last over 100,000 miles on all my cars. I'm not road racing either. They used to run drum brakes in NASCAR for years. Not sure I'd run discount brake shoes, but I have used Firm Feel relined shoes in the rear of a couple Barracudas.

Firmfeel Mopar Suspension and Steering
 
There are a number of stories on this including the one I linked in a reply above. UTG also covered it from the 'old car' end on a video. The risk, as I understand from reading it at least, is that names like cardone and centric failed to get a buyer and just shut down...
That was my fear. They won't all come back and no one will fill the void producing parts for a small classic car market.
 
You are not spoilsporting, but you are answering a question I did not ask, or at least assuming that i am doing something that I am not. The primarily reason not to go with BBP is because the factory wheel covers don't fit 15 inch wheels and the exposed lug nuts in the centers are on a 5x4 patterns, and I am restoring it, not making a hotrod or custom or whatever that is called. No shade on those that do, but that is not what I am doing.

The choices I outlined for my build are to keep the original drums at the 4 corners or swap out for the front discs that were available in 1966. I have cheated a little by considering aftermarket front discs, but only if the original stuff is not available and i can still use the original wheels. I only do this as a safety upgrade (that will be essentially hidden behind factory wheels) as I vividly remember the "press and pray" performance of 4 wheel drums in that car, especially on the 2nd stop.

You do you, but do I really have to explain that on this board?
I had no idea that you were ''restoring'' the car.
You do you, and i'll do me.
Let's just leave it at that...
 
To be a bit of a spoilsport here, why wouldn't you upgrade to the '73 and up BBP brakes at this point?
A much better selection of wheels are available as well as cheaper parts overall.
And they have better braking power and are stronger to boot.
Sure, you would have to get BBP axles in your rear end and 10'' brakes to match, but overall, you would be better off in the long run.
BTW, I hate SBP anything since I saw the light...

It just comes down how you're planning on using the car. If you actually plan on driving your car a decent amount then it makes sense to upgrade to the BBP disks, wheels, larger tires etc. The performance is better and the parts are widely available and will likely remain so for at least awhile longer because of the longer production range of the BBP disks.

If your car is just a restored show pony that's barely gonna break a thousand miles a year, buy an extra set of KH disks, run the ancient and outdated brake pads that sacrifice stopping distance for rotor preservation, and just remember on the rare occasion that you do actually drive your car that you won't be able to out brake anything on the road today. You're trading safety for originality.

You are not spoilsporting, but you are answering a question I did not ask, or at least assuming that i am doing something that I am not. The primarily reason not to go with BBP is because the factory wheel covers don't fit 15 inch wheels and the exposed lug nuts in the centers are on a 5x4 patterns, and I am restoring it, not making a hotrod or custom or whatever that is called. No shade on those that do, but that is not what I am doing.

The choices I outlined for my build are to keep the original drums at the 4 corners or swap out for the front discs that were available in 1966. I have cheated a little by considering aftermarket front discs, but only if the original stuff is not available and i can still use the original wheels. I only do this as a safety upgrade (that will be essentially hidden behind factory wheels) as I vividly remember the "press and pray" performance of 4 wheel drums in that car, especially on the 2nd stop.

You do you, but do I really have to explain that on this board?

Yes, you actually have to explain how you plan on using your car if you want a good answer, because there are choices and those choices have consequences. Not everyone uses their car the same way, which is GOOD. If you're planning on daily or frequently driving your car in modern traffic and logging enough miles a year that rotor replacements will be a consideration in your future then you're going to first want brakes that will at least bring you into the same performance ballpark as the other cars around you on the road, and you'll probably want to choose something that you'll be able to replace worn parts on when the time comes rather than having to abandon your entire brake system, bolt pattern, axles and wheels when you need to replace everything.

If you're going the "restoration" route and trying to keep everything original and aren't planning on any substantial mileage, yeah, buy an extra set of rotors, a couple sets of original, outdated and underperforming brake pads and call it a day. Easy.

If you plan on using your car, well, you'd better consider performance and replacement. And performance probably FIRST, because it's a shame to total out a perfectly restored car because your brakes perform like they're from the last century and not this one.

Restored cars have their place, but quite frankly the reason interest in these cars keeps falling off is because no one from later generations ever sees them on the road or has any real life experiences with them, and garage queens don't change that. It's less of a thing with these cars now because of the recent resto-mod and pro-touring movements, but if you have cars from a couple decades earlier the prices continue to fall on all but the exemplary and historical models, and it's only a matter of time before the same is happening to these cars. They're cars, DRIVE them.


MBM is just the Chinese version of what you can get from DoctorDiff. It's a 73+ disk brake upgrade, offered with a 5x4" bolt pattern. The rotor hubs are not the same size as the original KH rotors, and while some original wheels can work many do not. So while you may retain your factory bolt pattern in many cases you still need to buy new wheels.

DoctorDiff's kit will cost a little more, but it comes with better parts and MUCH better customer service, for those that want to go that route.
 
Yes, you actually have to explain how you plan on using your car if you want a good answer, because there are choices and those choices have consequences. Not everyone uses their car the same way, which is GOOD. If you're planning on daily or frequently driving your car in modern traffic and logging enough miles a year that rotor replacements will be a consideration in your future then you're going to first want brakes that will at least bring you into the same performance ballpark as the other cars around you on the road, and you'll probably want to choose something that you'll be able to replace worn parts on when the time comes rather than having to abandon your entire brake system, bolt pattern, axles and wheels when you need to replace everything.
You mean like putting a line in the original post, zeroing in on the question I asked about front drum to disc conversion like "Who has done this with factory 14 inch steels wheels specifically the 14 x 5.5 Formula S wheels?" Given that the factory 14x5.5 wheels were only 5x4, and I also mentioned that in the OP, i suspected that folks on this board could draw a more or less straight line through the dots i left. I get it, the guy did not read the full OP or just forgot in all the replies, or has been down this road himself and made a different choice, but the initial question was pretty specific. I appreciate that one solution would be to replace wheels, tires, rear axles and the like, but that is not in my plan.

To be fair, I am having to rethink my mindset as usually when I chose a car I am driving at least 25K a year and so I tend to thin from the " i will need to do a brake job a year +/-" Some of the posters above helped me remember that on this car, even with a lot of driving, i will be unlikely to put 5K on it a year, so my mindset on wear parts has to be different than on my 4Runner and the Family fleet of Camrys, highlander, and sienna. That too helps me zero in on the "as close to a factory set up as I can, making allowances for safety and some hidden convenience" goal and so either original KH discs OR a reasonable drum to disc conversion that changes as little as possible is where i am.

Its all a trade off as I have not driven in a car without an airbag and traction control for a long time. So driving my old barracuda with its 4.5 foot long rigid harpoon of a steering shaft pointed right at my chest is going to be a gamble even on a good day, but my life insurance is paid up and my kids are adults. However, as vivid as my memories of screaming about town in this car are, I also vividly remember that feeling of "oh boy, i sure hope I can stop in time" with heated drums or a failing single reservoir master cylinder. Even the move to front discs as a first step is reasonable. I may even go power at some point, but not unless i have to as it clutters the engine bay.

Does that help flesh out the question. A summary of the car is in the signature line of all my posts, including this one and I have a restoration thread over in that forum. It won't be my daily driver, but it won't be some diaper massaged garage queen either. It might be an A-Body in the age of E-Bodies, with a tiny 273 4bbl, but I will still push it, like i did in the 80s.

Having said all that, i really appreciate all the replies (yes all of them :) ). Even when we don't agree, I learn something.
 
.... and so either original KH discs OR a reasonable drum to disc conversion that changes as little as possible is where i am.

my $0.02 here is avoid any disc conversion that is not stock or stock adjacent. where are those companies gonna be in 5 years (looking at you, SSBC), who is going to make those specific one off parts?

the exception here would be maybe a conversion kit that uses mustang 2 components... but i'm not sure where that leaves you SBP wise and what the offerings are 14" wheel wise because of rotor/caliper fitment.

if it weren't for the desire to retain the peek-a-boo lug nut factory wheel covers, you could go BBP on a factory 14" steel wheel and nobody would ever be the wiser.

so this begs the question: dr. diff sells the single piston BBP swap with a SBP rotor... will the 1/2" lugs clear the holes in the factory wheel cover?

if the answer to that is yes, then to me that's the play.
 
I ran EBC Red pads on my KH disc for like 15 years maybe 5,000 miles. Then took it all off and sold it and pads rotors still looked great.
 
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