Oh no I think I have a 3.09 4-speed, help!!

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brewil

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Hi everyone,

I purchased a B-Body A833 and have mated it to an A-body tail with tailshaft

I was under the impression that B-body late 60's 4 speeds were 2.66 ratio but I checked Brewers images and my cluster gear has a single groove denoting 3.09

is this definite?
Can I check the teeth?

The box is for my Hemi 265 Turbo which will be putting out about 500hp

thanks

Brett
 
ok, the input shaft on 3.09 has 22 teeth. the 2.66 has 24 teeth. did the trans have a ball and trunion rear u joint on it? only ratio, I've seen on B body care is 2.66, 3.09 was used in early A bodies.
 
No Ball and trunnion...weird right???

Apparently 3.09 is OK for my 6 cylinder
The A-body tail shaft I have is ball and trunnion but has been converted to a yoke
 
Why can't you rotate the shaft and count turns?
 
Hi everyone,

I purchased a B-Body A833 and have mated it to an A-body tail with tailshaft

I was under the impression that B-body late 60's 4 speeds were 2.66 ratio but I checked Brewers images and my cluster gear has a single groove denoting 3.09

is this definite?
Can I check the teeth?

The box is for my Hemi 265 Turbo which will be putting out about 500hp

thanks

Brett



Be happy if you did luck out and get a 3.09 first. Don't forget, the OD boxes have 3.09 firsts too.
 
3.09 1st isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you've got a big cam the 3.09 1st could actually be a good thing, you won't need as much gear in the back to get started so you can keep some freeway speed up top.
 
I wanna say......that would be too easy; but some people would take that personally. So That's not my avatar over there on the left. Somebody mustof hacked my account, the dirty rotten scoundrel.
 
OK so I'm just misunderstanding because everybody has been "the 2.66 is the box to have".
AJ I messaged you but didn't see that you'd replied here.
The info I got was that I'll have to rev to 6500rpm and change to second and it will be only be around 2100rpm.
Sounds like it's going to lag surely and that just to get second going smoothly I'll have to rev the hell out of it.

The cam I have is apparently very streetable
It's a solid cam 114 grind with a 251 inlet and 241 exhaust
 
Hang on they only give me 420 characters in the profile page, so I'll have to rearrange stuff and put it here.
I am assuming this is a direct 4th no overdrive trans.
Here are the ratios and splits;
3.09-1.92-1.40-1.00 splits of . 62-.73-.71
2.66-1.91-1.39-1.00 splits of .72-.73-.71
So the splits tell you that at whatever rpm you outshift, the inshift will be at those percents. So in your case outshifting 1st at 6500,it will drop in at .62 x 6500=4030 vs 4680 with the 2.66 low. This should load up the turbo nicely. All other splits are the same.
So I don't see a downside here.
But getting back to your question in my profile page;
Your question was;
Hi AJ, I hope you can help me understand what I'm dealing with.
I've got a Hemi 265 straight 6 from Australia, EFI setup, turbo, about 500hp. The cam is very streetable. Rear will be 3.54
NOW...I got a 4 speed box from the USA but it looks like a 3.09 input and cluster.
The car will be a tough daily drive
any ideas?

That's a tuff one for me,never having had a turbo anything. I can tell you tho that 3.09 x 3.54 =a 10.94 starter gear, which is a very nice starter gear for a NA 367 cuber with about 400 hp....like mine. I could go with a little less starter gear, but since I have an overdrive, I just leave it. Besides I like the 1-2 split which is 1.92/3.09= 62%. That split lets me blast out of the gate, and then get down to business, in second gear. If you are making 500 with that little 265, I'm betting it's gonna be spinning some to make it, or running a lottof boost, or some combination of that. The point being that a big turbo to make 500 with a little engine, is usually a little soft on take off. Now the very streetable cam, kindof tells me its a small duration, perhaps 265 to 275 advertised,unless it's a roller than it could be 10 or 15 degrees bigger. That will steal a little torque off the bottom as well. So I don't see a 3.09 low as a problem.
Look at it this way, you can always short shift it and let the boost take over. Then when not getting on it, you can depend on the starter gear to get you moving.
Another way to look at it is the 3.09 is only 3.09/2.66= plus 16% TM. So you can launch at 16% less torque. This might be a couple of hundred rpm lower.
Or if the chassis can take it, you can launch with that extra 16% TM, and be quicker.
I don't see a downside to the 3.09 low gear. I knew as soon as I put it in , that it was exactly right for my 3.55s. The rest of the ratios are very nearly the same as the ratios in the 2.66low box.
And the low gear itself is the very same gear as what's in the 2.66. They just changed the cluster drive ratio up front, and re-engineered the other ratios to match.
For a tough DD I think you will like it; probably a lot.

Getting back to post #14, whoever told you the Rs would drop so far, needs a lesson in math. To drop from 6500 to 2100 is a split of 2100/6500=.32 or to 32 %. That would make 1st a Granny gear, something like a grain truck would have or a cement truck,lol! I have never heard of a P-car trans having a split that deep.
In the Mopar line-up, one of the biggest splits can be found in the OD box.The ratios are 3.09-1.67-1.00-.71, and the splits are; .54-.60-.71.. Even in this box the Rs would only drop from 6500 to .54 x 6500= 3510

Hope I've been helpful
BTW; those cam specs; are those numbers at .050?
 
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The engine came off the showroom floor in 1972 with 302bph
Not so little
I'll probably be hitting 320+ without the turbo
 
Awesome AJ thanks for your expertise!!!
My mind is totally at rest.
The R/T Valiant Charger's ran a BW 4 speed with a 3.23 diff ratio
If I recall they ran a first of 2.82

Just a nice Dyno


Here's a quick vid a of 400hp flywheel hemi 265


and a few more
the 6 second Hemi 265


My mate Brads turbo 265
 
Wow! thanks for the education.
You got any dyno printouts from any turbocharged engine like yours, and especially showing the lower rpms maybe NA. I think it would be interesting to see an off-boost/on boost , comparo.
 
I don't unfortunately
I'm still building my car from the ground up
Transmission guys totally screwed up on the job here so I'm rebuilding it myself
 
I don't unfortunately
I'm still building my car from the ground up
Transmission guys totally screwed up on the job here so I'm rebuilding it myself
If you're planning on shifting it up near 7000,there are some mods you need to do,and some optional ones, to get those big sob gears to slow down in a reasonable period of time.
And a lightweight flywheel helps too;this is a natural fit for the 3.09 low gear.
 
Wow! thanks for the education.
You got any dyno printouts from any turbocharged engine like yours, and especially showing the lower rpms maybe NA. I think it would be interesting to see an off-boost/on boost , comparo.

you can try get hold of Brad at [email protected]
He's got the brown car ha ha with the turbo running 9's
 
So the 3.09 is definitely the way to go?
I can't say, I've never had a 500 hp car. Never mind a turbo'd one,lol.
But I wouldn't give my 3.09 up, no how.

But if I did ever build a turbo'd car, I think with what little I know today; it would be a big enough engine, with a small enough cam,to pull a small enough rear gear, and 3 of them in an automatic would be enough to do whatever I wanted it to do.lol. Or just maybe it would have a gearsplitter and a wide ratio and a little V8,lol
 
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I think it bears repeating;
There are two 3.09 boxes.

A)The one from the early A's with ratios of 3.09-1.91-1.39-1.00
B)And the F-body od with ratios of 3.09-1.67-1.00-.73od.

I would not use the od box with a turbo. One day you will forget to Ease it into "4th" and shred all the teeth off that od gear. Even a teener can do that. Twice in my case. And you have no control of where those busted teeth go......
Otherwise, I think the Turbo would like the wide ratios.
 
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