Oil pump drive shaft question

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Lost Bushman

Lost Bushman

Rich with Anti-Money
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I know this as been asked already and I've read all the responses, but I just need confirmation to go along with what I think I need to do next...

On my 360 build, I installed a new brass bushing and went to install the oil pump drive shaft. It didn't drop in, so I gave a few taps with a rubber mallet, nothing. So, I removed the oil pump, I greased it up the shaft with lithium grease and tried again, after a dozen taps and one solid whack, it went in.

Problem is that without a crescent wrench turning the shaft of a large screwdriver, or a little elbow cranking, the drive shaft will not turn.

Do I need to take the pump off, drive the shaft back out a buy a new bushing? If so, what can I do to prevent this and insure smooth installation?
 
Thats too tight and something is not right.
You'll burn the oil pump drive shaft and waste the bushing in the least case.
Worst case would be that the oil pump drive shaft will snap off and you loose all oil pressure.

Lost Bushman said:
I know this as been asked already and I've read all the responses, but I just need confirmation to go along with what I think I need to do next...

On my 360 build, I installed a new brass bushing and went to install the oil pump drive shaft. It didn't drop in, so I gave a few taps with a rubber mallet, nothing. So, I removed the oil pump, I greased it up the shaft with lithium grease and tried again, after a dozen taps and one solid whack, it went in.

Problem is that without a crescent wrench turning the shaft of a large screwdriver, or a little elbow cranking, the drive shaft will not turn.

Do I need to take the pump off, drive the shaft back out a buy a new bushing? If so, what can I do to prevent this and insure smooth installation?
Click to expand...
 
You need a tool to install the bushing. The tool goes inside the bushing, and you tighten a bolt to draw it back out. This "burnishes" the ID of the bushing to the correct size, as well as slightly expanding the bushing outer ID into the block. The shop manual cautions you NOT to ream the bushing

READ this thread:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1765228
 
Holy smokes, that sounds pricey as all hell. I made a similar rig to pull the old bushing out, which worked fine. Then I drove the new bushing in easily enough with a wooden dowel and a light hammer. Is there any shadetree way to burnish the new bushing without spending a friggin fortune on a specialty tool? I hate buying one time use tools.
 
So, does anyone actually have this Miller tool? Or the dimensions of one at least? I'm pretty sure I can fabricate one myself, I really just need to know the ending ID and OD of the bushing after install. I don't know many engine shops around here well enough the borrow or rent anything.
 
Amazon shows the OTC 6293 for 101 bucks if that's any help:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/OTC-6293-Distributor-Bushing-Installer/dp/B000F5LJ1O"]Amazon.com: OTC 6293 Distributor Bushing Installer/Reamer: Automotive[/ame]

Let us know if you get your hands on one to measure up
 
you could probably be a little creative but you have got to be careful. i have done this without the tool with good results. but i cant share my secret because i dont remember LOL . if you buy the tool from summit, you can use it once and return it, you will have to eat the shipping. but you didnt hear that from me.
 
73AbodEE said:
you could probably be a little creative but you have got to be careful. i have done this without the tool with good results. but i cant share my secret because i dont remember LOL . if you buy the tool from summit, you can use it once and return it, you will have to eat the shipping. but you didnt hear that from me.
Click to expand...

If I could figure out how it works exactly, and get the final ID/OD rough specs, I'd be in business. From the pictures, I can't tell if it's a solid piece moved only by the nut, or if the inner shaft travels through the larger outer by means of turning that hex headed top piece. Although, the Summit "rental" sounds promising....
 
funwithfuel said:
Are you fitting the shaft with the oil pump and cam installed?
Click to expand...

No, both are removed as this is a new build.

I was reading a thread here..

http://ramchargercentral.com/vehicle-help/dist-gear-replacement/

Where they suggest driving an old shaft through the bushing to size it, they also suggest getting a bushing from NAPA because they don't need to be sized. Mine came from MP, which obviously needs sizing. Now, If I drive the shaft and gear back out from the bottom, would it be sized at this point? I would think that it would need to be a hair bigger to allow oil flow.
 
Lost Bushman said:
If I could figure out how it works exactly, and get the final ID/OD rough specs, I'd be in business. From the pictures, I can't tell if it's a solid piece moved only by the nut, or if the inner shaft travels through the larger outer by means of turning that hex headed top piece. Although, the Summit "rental" sounds promising....
Click to expand...

You already have those dimensions. The drive shaft for the ID and the block for the OD. Course, you'd probably wanna add .002" to the OD because it is a press fit.
 
Driving the old shaft through a bronze bushing invites the risk of cracking the bushing , or the material surrounding the bushing. This is hillbilly backwoods but I use fine emery cloth wound around a cut off quarter inch screw in a die grinder. This takes off very minimal material allowing for trial fit throughout the process. Good luck.
 
StrokerScamp said:
You already have those dimensions. The drive shaft for the ID and the block for the OD. Course, you'd probably wanna add .002" to the OD because it is a press fit.
Click to expand...

I was thinking that myself, about .002" over.

funwithfuel said:
Driving the old shaft through a bronze bushing invites the risk of cracking the bushing , or the material surrounding the bushing. This is hillbilly backwoods but I use fine emery cloth wound around a cut off quarter inch screw in a die grinder. This takes off very minimal material allowing for trial fit throughout the process. Good luck.
Click to expand...

You're doing this with the bushing out, before install? Because I had a similar idea about doing this using my drill press with some ultra fine grit paper.
 
The pump shaft OD is .485 (measured with a mic and a caliper) If you drive the bushing in and ball broach the ID then you should be good to go. Ball broach would be a .485 diameter ball on a shaft that you can tap through the bushing. They have these for valve inserts so I figure they would work as well on a bushing. A spec I saw for a bronze bushing up to .750 is .0005 clearance. A 31/64 drill bit @ .4844 ran in reverse on a cordless drill at a slow speed could ream out that hole pretty freaking close. Then follow up with a expanding ream to .4855
 
I just installed the bushing on my 360 magnum. I used a Durabond one (3.99$ from summit) and drove it in with the new shaft with some assembly lube on it. No need to use the tool, it fits perfectly! I guess it comes prefitted...
 
no, it does not come prefitted, but that´s exactly the way i did - putting it in with the intermediate shaft. Worked good, fits good. Not that i say "this is the best way to do" but it worked for me without any prooblems! If i were you i´d push the intermediate shaft trough the bushing with some oil - and see if it works. If not buy a new bushing....and try it again!

Michael
 
pishta said:
The pump shaft OD is .485 (measured with a mic and a caliper) If you drive the bushing in and ball broach the ID then you should be good to go. Ball broach would be a .485 diameter ball on a shaft that you can tap through the bushing. They have these for valve inserts so I figure they would work as well on a bushing. A spec I saw for a bronze bushing up to .750 is .0005 clearance. A 31/64 drill bit @ .4844 ran in reverse on a cordless drill at a slow speed could ream out that hole pretty freaking close. Then follow up with a expanding ream to .4855
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input! My dad told me the same thing about running a 31/64 bit through it.

DartFred said:
I just installed the bushing on my 360 magnum. I used a Durabond one (3.99$ from summit) and drove it in with the new shaft with some assembly lube on it. No need to use the tool, it fits perfectly! I guess it comes prefitted...
Click to expand...


360duster said:
no, it does not come prefitted, but that´s exactly the way i did - putting it in with the intermediate shaft. Worked good, fits good. Not that i say "this is the best way to do" but it worked for me without any prooblems! If i were you i´d push the intermediate shaft trough the bushing with some oil - and see if it works. If not buy a new bushing....and try it again!
Click to expand...

Now, you guys pressed the bushing onto the intermediate shaft, before installing it in the motor? How exactly does this address the problem? Because the shaft binding inside the bushing is the problem I'm dealing with.

Tomorrow, I've got a lead on a machine shop that might be able to me, and if that doesn't work, I've got a cousin who can borrow the actual install tool from a friend and mail it to me for use. I still would like to resolve this in house if I could, I appreciate ALL of the input.
 
i took an old shaft and filed a couple grooves into it and then turned it through....the new shaft fit great after that and ive never had any wobbling or premature wear.

but do what u want.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
i took an old shaft and filed a couple grooves into it and then turned it through....the new shaft fit great after that and ive never had any wobbling or premature wear.

but do what u want.
Click to expand...

All good advice, I guess this machine shop is going to take care of it for me, not over until it's done though.
 
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