moparstud440
Well-Known Member
For a 360 stroked to 408 that is a RACE only engine with no oil mods done using a solid flat tappet camshaft, 8 qt pan and RPMs stay under 6500 rpm which style oil pump do you guys like to use? Standard or High Volume?
Oil Pump
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Locomotion
Well-Known Member
I've used the standard pump on my race 360's up to 7,000 rpm and an 8 qt Milodon pan running 5-6 qts of oil. (Oil pressure did fluctuate a bit with 5 quarts.) But bearing clearances and other "leaking" part clearances were kept to a minimum.
My Mopar racer buddy has mostly used standard pumps. The hi vol use more hp
mopowers
Well-Known Member
If a high volume pump uses more hp, it's negligible (at best). Engine Masters just tested that theory.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
If you’re using full groove mains (and you should be) then use a HV pump. I always use them because you get more oil sooner to the rockers and shafts.
pishta
I know I'm right....
When does it mandate a high capacity pan? Heard the rumors of 5qt pans getting sucked dry with the high volume pumps.
I have heard the same, Im thinking incorrect baffling for a particular situation
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
If you have a standard volume pump and the pan doesn’t get sucked dry (that only happens for two reasons and one is it’s low on pool) and then you install a HV pump it still won’t suck the pan dry. It can’t.
It can’t because the total flow volume of oil through the engine is the total of ALL the oil leaks. That’s it. The HV pump will just open the bypass sooner. It will not increase the total flow through the engine UNLESS the standard pump is so small it never opens the bypass. But it still can’t suck the pan dry.
One reason people claim the pan got sucked dry is because they get low on oil. They are 4 quart pans. One quart in each head, one quart in the rest of the system (I’m not counting the filter or oil in it) and what is running down to the pan.
Get a quart low and bad **** happens. But that’s not the pan or the pumps fault.
The other thing that happens is people who refuse to read the factory service manual take this stuff apart and then read magazines and now the web and YouTube and the pick up is installed wrong.
On a factory pan, with a factory pickup the pickup needs to touch the floor of the pan. You shouldn’t have to screw the pan down with the bolts using a 3/4 drive impact, but it MUST touch the pan. If it doesn’t touch the pan, you will “suck” the pan dry very quickly.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
That is one poor excuse for proof ... when it shows clearly that the the RPM's were different. That said...
...I'd say run whatever pump you want..because searching for hp in n oil pump is to be already be winning big money racing championships.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Where did I say it was proof? I just posted that as an example. All three dyno curves were essentially identical - whatever that's worth. A number here or there really doesn't move the needle much.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
Lol Relax, it's not your testing, its enginemassas.
Imo Should be the same rpm, not a 100-300 rpm variance when the diff in power is likewise ...1-3 hp.
stumblinhorse
Well-Known Member
I like the engine masters guys. They are doing stuff that people question. Those numbers are peak TQ/HP and rounded to the nearest 100 RPM. So pretty good proof to me. I just replaced my oil pump with a HV and did have a dramatic impact and the pressure numbers pretty much are the same as the EngMas guys show. Def impact not mentioned anywhere is new LEAKS! High 40s at idle and upper 70s at revs, now my top end is seeping some.
furrystump
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Leaky lifter bores? Big clearances? Full groove bearings? Thin oil? Needle bearing rockers? EDM lifters? High volume. Unknown? High volume. Find the tiny bit of HP somewhere else. A motor you have absolute confidence in the clearances and the oil supply. Standard pump will do.
There are a lot of big name racers and engine builders in this site. They all use high volume pumps for a reason.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
I recently watched an Engine Master episode where they tested different oil pumps on engine on the dyno. It killed a few old wife's tails.
Great info
My vote is for a Melling HV pump.
I agree! Even if it did cost a few extra HP, the oil pump ain't the place to look for it. "OOO lemmie run a stock volume oil pump cause an HV pump takes too much power oooo"
How GAY does that sound? lol
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
LMAONot that there's anything wrong with that.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
Engine Masters actually shuts down the myth that it takes more HP to run an HV pump. Proved it on the dyno, no difference in HP standard pump vs HV.
I updated my roller 340 with an HV pump this last winter and my hot idle oil pressure went from 20 psi to 35 psi remains 65 psi at cruz'n speed.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
I run the stock factory 5 qt pan with a Melling HV pump.
I have spun it up to 6500 rpm, no issues
340 roller top end no oiling mods
Nailed it!
Nailed it!
I'm just waiting for you to work "The dingo ayte chor bayby" into a thread.
The standard factory pumps have excess capacity built into them. Rarely would it be necessary to use a HV pump. I am not against them for the poofteenth extra hp they consume, but the fact that they are needlessly bypassing oil back to the pan & making the pump work harder than it needs to.
Bakerlite
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As far as a HV pump sucking the pan dry, well that is a possibility in some situations. How is it possible you ask? Well have a look at the GPM .
Stock 4.9
HV or HP 6.2
That's a 26.5 percent increase
As you increase the pressure, which HV pumps do, you also increase the GPM. More pressure squeezes more oil past all the little restrictions in the engine.
That extra oil has to make it's way back to the pickup.
So if your running close to oil starvation, with a stock pump, then going to a HV may just create an issue.
That's something to think about.
Stock 4.9
HV or HP 6.2
That's a 26.5 percent increase
As you increase the pressure, which HV pumps do, you also increase the GPM. More pressure squeezes more oil past all the little restrictions in the engine.
That extra oil has to make it's way back to the pickup.
So if your running close to oil starvation, with a stock pump, then going to a HV may just create an issue.
That's something to think about.
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