old school 340 cam help

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dust-u

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I have a 72 340 that is about as old school as it gets. .030 12.5 to 1 4 speed 3:91s. ran a 509 cam and with a little help from racegas motor ran pretty well and aside from not coming alive until 2000 rpm pulled pretty darn well. sadly I wiped out a cam lobe and explored an option. it was suggested I run a set of open chambered 318 heads , modestly ported with 188/160 valves. add a .083 cometic head gasket set ( to lower cr some?)and a comp cams 268 extreme energy cam and it was reported to me that this combo would run like a "scalded cat". after recovering from some serious surgery I got to putting it together. I could not understand why choking a motor to achieve a "ram effect" would work ?anyway its done and it runs like .. umm **** .. to be honest.
its slow and has no power. with visions of mad darts sodomy on his heads I think I got the same mumbo jumbo from the same fellow.so before I totally destroy a good motor can someone offer me a cam that would work with a mildly ported 202 iron head with my combo.?cuz this stuff is coming out...
?I musta been watching fantasy island when I plunked down my 2200 bux . any input welcome,no insults, just help, including your psychologists contact info. thanks guys.
 
Choking an engine never works.

If you want to lower the CR and it's actually 12.5:1 (if you didn't measure it you don't know) mill the dome off the piston. Using a thicker head gasket is a bad way to do it.

As for a cam, spend your time on the phone with a cam grinder. I've named several before. Why buy an off the shelf cam when you can get one ground? Doesn't make sense to me.
 
Choking an engine never works.

If you want to lower the CR and it's actually 12.5:1 (if you didn't measure it you don't know) mill the dome off the piston. Using a thicker head gasket is a bad way to do it.

As for a cam, spend your time on the phone with a cam grinder. I've named several before. Why buy an off the shelf cam when you can get one ground? Doesn't make sense to me.
Choking an engine never works.

If you want to lower the CR and it's actually 12.5:1 (if you didn't measure it you don't know) mill the dome off the piston. Using a thicker head gasket is a bad way to do it.

As for a cam, spend your time on the phone with a cam grinder. I've named several before. Why buy an off the shelf cam when you can get one ground? Doesn't make sense to me.
 
I am really asking for it...but it is what it is....bring it on. ? always willing to learn..
 
cam grinder info. to me?

No, I've posted it in other threads. Here are some in no particular order.

Cam Motion
Racer Brown
Bullet
Erson
Mike Jones
Controlled Induction
Hughes
Isky


I tend to stay away from people that want to sell me an off the shelf cam. Isky will do it, but want to sell shelf stuff first because that's where the quick money is. Comp will too.
 
I would definitely call Racer Brown. He will custom grind one for you. Best way to go in my opinion.
As far as the 318 heads you had done, you can post them on the for sale section and try to recoup some of the money you spent in them.
 
if these heads have any similarities to mad darts? I don't want that on my conscience
 
I wanna know who was the idiot who recommended a 318 head for your combo? That's hilarious
 
don't wanna go there, they know who they are....its my fault for listening to them.i own that
 
I think glider is on point .a racer brown looks to be right up my alley
 
I had a 340 4bbl 4spd w/3.91. I had a DC /MP 284/484 "street hemi purple shaft". I was very happy with it. Got remarkable mileage (18mpg hiway), and it ran solid 13's.
 
Is this a street engine?
Then coming from being happy with a 292/108, anything else is gonna seem doggy on the top. I've been there.
With that 292 cam in at 104, the ICA was 70*, and
Static compression ratio of 12.5:1.
Effective stroke is 2.43 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 9.43:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 197.62
PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 149

This is not suited to a streeter at all. But check out the 149VP; that's a pretty good number. If you managed to figure out a way to keep her out of detonation, firstly congratulations, and secondly 149VP is a great street number. So you wanna shoot for that with whatever cam and compression you choose, even tho it means giving up some of the 292 topend.
Problem #1;Going to a smaller cam is only gonna drive the pressure higher.
Problem #2; Since you are sticking to iron heads,this is gonna be a tough project, Generally with a tight-Q, 165psi is considered the max for pumpgas. The only way for you to run a tight-Q is with no gasket at all,lol.
Problem #3; If you can't get into the Q-zone,then you might want to reduce your pressure target to 160 max psi.Unless this is not for street and/or you are OK with running your race-gas..... forever.
> the 268 is a pretty good size for a streeter..... at the proper compression ratio for the head material you are running. It puts the power peak at a more street-friendly rpm of say 5000/5200. Good heads will stretch the operating rpm out, if you have the right springs.
I had an old Hughes 270 (HE2430AL) that was still pulling well into the 6s and I usually let her buck to 7000. That combo in my 10.9 Scr-367 made 185psi (aluminum heads), and VP'd at 162. You can imagine my delight with that. And I won't tell you I pulled over 30mpgsUS out of her with a double overdrive. No, it didn't pull like the 292 did,at 110mph; but it didn't need to; she was a streeter.

Your engine with pop-up pistons would really like aluminum heads so you can continue to run very high cylinder pressure, but now on pump-gas. But the 12.5/1 is still gonna have to be reduced, for the street.
I see 11.6 Scr doable with an ICA of 66*, giving you a cylinder pressure of 188psi and a VP of......146.
That's about the same VP as your 292/108 cam, and a pressure loss of just about 10psi, and you are now running on pumpgas.
So then it remains to find a cam with the 66* ICA.
For a stick like mine, I like the 108Lsa,
so here's one:
276/282/108 in at 108 for an ICA of 66*, and overlap of 63* this will be about [email protected]. I run a 230 and can attest that this is a far better cam in my combo, than the 292 ever was.
Here's one at 106Lsa;
280/284/106 in at 106 for an ICA of 66*, and overlap of 70* This will be about [email protected],
Or you could go to a mechanical cam and get almost all the 292 power back. The 280 above could then be a 241 @.050. If you had advanced the 292, to in at 100, which some guys do in an effort to get some bottom-end back, then this 280 mechanical cam could run right along side of it....... but on pump-gas.
All cams I listed are theoretical, you may not find a match in a catalog.
So then what remains is how to get your 340 down to 11.6Scr.
IMO, the cheapest way to do this is to cut the tops of the pistons down as YR mentioned, to a pop-up of .005, then run closed 58cc aluminum heads and the .039 gaskets(8.8cc). This will get you a total chamber volume of about 68.7cc after you put 3cc eyebrows back into the piston crowns. My math is 58+8.8+3-1.1=68.7. Now with your 340 at 4.06 bore the swept works out to 703.28, and the Scr becomes 11.24,close enough. The Q will then be .039 less .005=.034 and I have been running that since the early 2000s.
With the compression now at 11.24, the 276/282/108 works; in at 106 for an ICA of 64* , now at 185psi/147VP. If you make this a mechanical cam, you will have about 237*@.050. This is about a size and a half smaller than the 292. So the power peak moves down about 300 to 350 rpm.
IMO, aluminum heads, by themselves, may not be the best thing since sliced bread, but the cylinder pressure that you can run with them is waaay better.

BTW
your 268 cam, in at 110 would have an ICA of 64*............see above,lol. It's a hydro tho so the .050 is probably just about 222*, and the overlap is just 56*...... but at 112* of power extraction, it can make pretty good fuel mileage under steady-state cruising at over about 2000rpm. That will take the edge off those 3.91s when hitting the hiway.
Parting shots
>You can do this with an open chamber Eddies, and leaving some pop-up on your crowns, but,that's gonna be a lotta work to engineer, and really;it's not the best idea.
 
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read through AJs post a couple of times
which 318 head
308's would make a big difference over the early stuff
(so would magnums if you got lucky)
I can't see running a comp 268 chevy cam under any circumstances but it in there
but with 12:1- yikes
Do you want to make the heads u have work?
do you have head flows or go to the Stan Weiss site and pick some
did you say what pistons and dome height and how far the valley side is above/ below deck?
 
read through AJs post a couple of times
which 318 head
308's would make a big difference over the early stuff
(so would magnums if you got lucky)
I can't see running a comp 268 chevy cam under any circumstances but it in there
but with 12:1- yikes
Do you want to make the heads u have work?
do you have head flows or go to the Stan Weiss site and pick some
did you say what pistons and dome height and how far the valley side is above/ below deck?
"308" heads are not 318 heads, they are 360
 
OP, are you going back to the original heads? Sounds like it.

I am curious why you want to lower the CR: Are you wanting to get away from the race gas? The CR situation has to be settled first. Plus we need to know what you like to do with this car: Drag race? Race stoplight to stoplight? Haul groceries? Basically, are you looking for more high revving HP or better low RPM torque?

BTW, 'coming alive' above 2000 RPM is pretty good with a 292 cam; that is the CR working for you. Sounds like you had a combination before that had good, wide RPM range and power that you liked.
 
fill out mike jones cam card and let him tell you if what you have can make what you have work and what easiest move is
head cc's
pistons
long cam/ late closing like what you had
re read aj's post (s)
 
ok 302 heads late vs early crap
my question on the 318 heads ties in with nm9's question
Did you port them as discussed in the sticky at the top of the page
evidently 318's can make a high velocity port head even DIY
I see useful for street, tow, most everything that is not going to be high rev
obviously they will not feed a 340 or 400+ at high revs but think of the great throttle response below 4000 and a terror stoplight to stoplight
If they just have the big valves put in plus a bowl blend- well run them till you can get some heads that better fit your new needs
one caveat I never try to make up with a cam low flowing heads- you loose your low end and the head limits the top end no matter what the cam
you can build a broad torque curve but it will fall off at the top end- best you can do
your 318s may flow better now than stock X's or J's and have more velocity
BTW I would not think it (the 509) would come in till a higher rev than that
so back to fuel, compression, how do you want to drive it
 
I can attest to that, having run 318 heads on a 340 with a 318 cam, and even with the teener 2bbl. It was basically just a big-bore teener. That was a real snotty engine in a 65 V100 wagon.
 
I can attest to that, having run 318 heads on a 340 with a 318 cam, and even with the teener 2bbl. It was basically just a big-bore teener. That was a real snotty engine in a 65 V100 wagon.

I ran mildly ported 318 heads on a 360 with a Big cam. My current ported 587's with a smaller cam doesn't even come close.
 
ok 302 heads late vs early crap
my question on the 318 heads ties in with nm9's question
Did you port them as discussed in the sticky at the top of the page
evidently 318's can make a high velocity port head even DIY
I see useful for street, tow, most everything that is not going to be high rev
obviously they will not feed a 340 or 400+ at high revs but think of the great throttle response below 4000 and a terror stoplight to stoplight
If they just have the big valves put in plus a bowl blend- well run them till you can get some heads that better fit your new needs
one caveat I never try to make up with a cam low flowing heads- you loose your low end and the head limits the top end no matter what the cam
you can build a broad torque curve but it will fall off at the top end- best you can do
your 318s may flow better now than stock X's or J's and have more velocity
BTW I would not think it (the 509) would come in till a higher rev than that
so back to fuel, compression, how do you want to drive it

This post is a complete mess. Actually the whole thread is. First the heads won't let it rev above 4000rpm then they might flow and have better velocity than stock x's or j's. Well? Which is it? J.Rob
 
I have a 72 340 that is about as old school as it gets. .030 12.5 to 1 4 speed 3:91s. ran a 509 cam and with a little help from racegas motor ran pretty well and aside from not coming alive until 2000 rpm pulled pretty darn well. sadly I wiped out a cam lobe and explored an option. it was suggested I run a set of open chambered 318 heads , modestly ported with 188/160 valves. add a .083 cometic head gasket set ( to lower cr some?)and a comp cams 268 extreme energy cam and it was reported to me that this combo would run like a "scalded cat". after recovering from some serious surgery I got to putting it together. I could not understand why choking a motor to achieve a "ram effect" would work ?anyway its done and it runs like .. umm **** .. to be honest.
its slow and has no power. with visions of mad darts sodomy on his heads I think I got the same mumbo jumbo from the same fellow.so before I totally destroy a good motor can someone offer me a cam that would work with a mildly ported 202 iron head with my combo.?cuz this stuff is coming out...
?I musta been watching fantasy island when I plunked down my 2200 bux . any input welcome,no insults, just help, including your psychologists contact info. thanks guys.

318 heads are complete and utter crap--don't care if they are open chamber or the vaunted '302 heads (they're worse!!!) We can thank Dulcich for that one. A stock 318 casting will flow in the 150's!! Your stock x/j's or whatever you previously ran flow 190-195 cfm dead stock--that is 40+cfm difference! This could be an easy 80-100hp difference. So you lowered your compression by increasing crevice volume=big mistake and changed the heads and went to a shitty cam grind. Three strikes and you're out. The fix is obvious. Go back to your previous combo if you were satisfied with it-EASY ENOUGH I'd say!

What is never addressed in the OP's opening statement is-the reason for the changes. Why not just put another .509" cam in it? Why change the heads? Why lower the compression-in the worst way possible-I might add? I could have sold you another cam that would work better than the old .509" for 2200 bux easily and saved you a ton of grief. J.Rob
 
WE have not heard that he still has his original heads or if they are usable
he has what he has now
so how to get back on the road till he can get some real heads
do the .083 cometics have a large bore hence the crevice volume comment?
no comment on the 268 chevy cam
 
WE have not heard that he still has his original heads or if they are usable
he has what he has now
so how to get back on the road till he can get some real heads
do the .083 cometics have a large bore hence the crevice volume comment?
no comment on the 268 chevy cam

The .083" gaskets ARE the horrendous crevice volume. Still though the OP is a hit and run and has not addressed the reason for not just sticking another .509" in there. WTF?. J.Rob
 
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