Panel bond?

[volaredon]

W T F is this stuff?
I am working on a Dodge truck project and have the bare cab off and on furniture dolleys in my garage. I originally thought this cab was hunkey dorey and all I'd have to do was to swap out the small A/T 2wd trans tunnel for a 4wd/and or granny gear stick trans tunnel. WRONG!
once I got it home I found out the center section of the rear cab wall is all pop riveted in. And puttied over with something. I assumed it was traditional Bondo but it was brought up that it could be panel bond. I plan on drilling out all the spot welds and plug welding all the pop riveted spots while also welding it at least an inch at a time then skip a couple of inches then another inch long or so weld, etc all the way around. It's overlapped on the inside of the original cab panel about the width of a raised rib on each side.
The weird part is all the common known spots for problems on an 80s cab are fantastic shape. Roof, cab corners, rockers and cowl are all great. I have 1 spot of floor pan by the driver side seat mount bolts to cut out and patch is about it on the rest of the cab. I was hoping to swap the tunnels and get it to blast before now. This was an unexpected setback.
I mentioned this on another forum and out of the blue got an offer for another cab that's supposed to be in (as the guy who approached me with the offer) in "scuff and shoot" condition and is already a 4 speed cab. Problem with that is that it would cost me more to get it from FL to IL than the guy is asking for the cab I don't know of anyone passing thru. I dread the thought of asking for a quote to have it shipped so I'm gonna go with what I have for better or worse. I'm pretty sure most of the cost of correcting the problem with what I have will mostly be sweat equity. As long as whatever putty they used comes off readily. I've heard if it is panel bond that I'll ruin the metal before I get the panel bond crap off. Who knows what about this crap?
I know of 2 vehicles that have been repaired with that crap. One a 99 Dodge truck that looked great for a year and a half then it looked like someone drew a picture of where the bed patch panels were seamed in with a rust colored sharpie.
And another guy who used it on installing quarters on a 64 galaxie and was sorry he did so afterwards.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Panel bond in the 80s? Never heard of such.

 

[volaredon]

I was wondering when this was done. Some time since the donor truck that the cab came from was made in 1990. I don't know when. I know this truck was my son's Best friend's high school truck in around 2010-2013ish. Between 1990 and 2010 ish I have no idea who owned it or where it has been. My thoughts were that it was originally a camper or box truck or something like that (maybe left the assembly line as a cab and chassis? ) when my kid's buddy had it it had a regular 80's / Early 90s Dodge truck bed on it.
That truck got totalled out while the boys were in highschool or shortly after, it was hit by a drunk while parked as the kids were in the stands at the homecoming football game that year. The insurance totalled it out and the kid parted it out.
In that wreck it was hit broadside in the side of the bed. It never touched the cab or doors. Since then the cab has not even ever been wet as it has been stored in a barn until last weekend with a pair of doors stacked inside. Between the darkness of the barn and the stuff piled within, it wasn't readily seen. I noticed it when I asked a neighbor farmer to come over with his bobcat and forks to get it onto my trailer. I saw the butt end of all the pop rivets as soon as he got outside and the sunlight hit it.
I remember something about the truck having sat somewhere a few years before that kid bought it because of the story of how easy the Cummins started after sitting with just a fresh battery where a gas engine would probably not have....I don't know how we didn't see it when we put that cab into that barn at least 10 years ago
My son was going to use it on a truck he had because his roof was rotted out but ended up selling his truck before the swap could happen.

 

[TT5.9mag]

If it’s actual panel bond you will not get it apart without ruining the base metals. That stuff is stronger than welding the two pieces together.

 

[Oldiron440]

I’ve actually had decent success removing panels adhered with it by trimming the panel being removed down to about 3” wide and then cutting across it. You can then peel the remaining 3 inches apart from the original panel. Some newer vehicles use panel bonding adhesive on quarter panels or roof panels. You can take a pair of Chanel Locks and actually roll it back at first then give it a pull once you get a few inches up.

 

[abdywgn]

Ford had a floor problem (I believe) in the 90's. a caulk type tube of bonder and piece of sheet metal was the repair. don't recall if it was to strengthen a thin area or what.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Ford had a floor problem (I believe) in the 90's. a caulk type tube of bonder and piece of sheet metal was the repair. don't recall if it was to strengthen a thin area or what.

They also "repaired" exploding gas tanks with plastic shields.

 

[JDMopar]

Don, I was the one who suggested in your thread on Moparts that you may be able to use panel bond adhesive to redo the patch on the back of your cab, since it is a non structural panel. It would be easier than welding and hold just as good, if not better. It was just a suggestion. Do it however you want. Good luck with it.

 

[Mtrhead]

The stuff is used by new car companies to put quarter panels on it is just as good as welding (no heat) or better like Jackie says..3M stuff... applicator gun has mixing tips

 

[volaredon]

Don, I was the one who suggested in your thread on Moparts that you may be able to use panel bond adhesive to redo the patch on the back of your cab, since it is a non structural panel. It would be easier than welding and hold just as good, if not better. It was just a suggestion. Do it however you want. Good luck with it.

I appreciate the suggestion, for sure. I've occasionally heard of this substance, never used it. You seem "not happy" that I'm asking for more information on the subject ? I'm not a body man, I can't afford to have the whole thing "done", so I'm going to do the " rough" prep work to save some dough, using tools and tech that I do know, and have/ and the only people that I know who have used panel bond, have been unhappy with the results.
I know there's more than 1 way to skin a cat so to speak, but I certainly don't know all of them. I do what I can with what I do know. I'm gonna start at it with a wire wheel and if it won't come off I guess I'm gonna start looking for another cab. It looks like crap and even though it's not gonna be seen once done and all back together, I know it's there.

 

[340sFastback]

I thought high heat breaks down panel bond, that is what I recall reading? But be careful cause I had some burn when I welded close to it. I used 3M panel bond for 1/4 panel patches along the lower seem and butt welded patches to the 1/4 panel on upper seem. Its great stuff if used appropriately.

 

[JDMopar]

We're all good Don. I never thought you were questioning my suggestion, but I didn't word my reply above as well as I could have. I had someone rushing me to do something and in turn, rushed through the reply. I do apologize for sounding short. Since the cab you have is in really good shape, you should be able to make a good repair to the 2 spots and get a lot of years out of it. If you have another cab you can cut patches from, cut a piece of the back of the cab off of it that is several inches larger than the current patch job on the good cab. Don't cut the new piece off the old cab until you get the one removed from your new to you cab. That way you can figure out how much bigger to cut the repair piece. Get on You Tube and look up Fitzee's Fabrication channel. Look for his "Cut and butt" video where he demonstrates how to cut thru both pieces tacked together, and do it with the cutoff wheel turned at a 45 degree angle. If I can become a better welder on sheet metal, I want to try doing some patches that way. I'm not a professional body man either, but know enough and have done enough to do most of my own work. From what you've posted, the top just has a smallish round hole. I'd keep that repair as small as possible. Fitzee has a good way to do that too, if you look him up. Hang in there with that good cab. You'll get it fixed. You can build automatic transmissions, so I am full confident that you can make a few good patches on your cab.

 

[volaredon]

The existing patch is the center 3/4 of the whole cab wall. If you remember the last time you saw a bed off of a pickup, you know how it is ribbed.
The outer most ribs (indented ones). Are original ones to the cab itself, from last "outie" outward on driver side to last "outie" on passenger side has been patched in. They went to about 1-1/2" above the cab floor.let me see if the picture think works today/

 

[volaredon]

Here's more

 

[volaredon]

The blue thing "big" trans tunnel from a club cab (used on all club cabs, granny gear stick equipped trucks and 4wd trucks) was the only welding I thought I would have to do on this cab.
Wrong!
The other pic is the only hole in the floor, there's not even any pinholes anywhere else. That's where the back of the seat mounts on driver side.

 

[volaredon]

Here's both holes in the roof... From inside.
The hole in the top is about a 5/8" drilled hole, with 4 sheet metal screws holes around it in about a 2x2 pattern. They screwed a piece of sheet metal over it instead of putting a rubber plug in there. And what they did on the inside there, it's the size of 2 baseballs mashed together. Way bigger than the outside hole and hidden behind the headliner I pulled out... I'm gonna have to cut a patch for the inside, I have some 2-@/2" solid copper bars I can stick thru the cargo light hole as a backer to fill in the holes in the outer skin, not too worried about that.
GET RID OF THE DAMNED TIK TOK ADS! I hit "install" but mistake when I went to hit "post reply because of how it incessantly pops up whenever it wants to

 

[JDMopar]

Dang, I see how much they hacked now! Somehow, I had it envisioned to just be a smaller hole cut in the middle, but it looks like they cut a door gap or something in there. Looks like they spent hours with a pop rivet gun. If it were me doing it, I would find the easiest place to do like you said and drill out 6 or 8" of pop rivets. Since you can get to most of them from the inside, grind the tails off the pop rivets to keep from making the holes bigger. Once you get the filler ground off on the outside, you can take a small punch and knock them out from the inside. Once you get those out of the way in a pretty decent sized space, you can see if you can work a putty knife between the panels. If you can do that, it ain't panel bond adhesive and probably just caulking or seam sealer. It looks like it got cut straight down with a sawzall maybe. You could try flattening a piece of copper water pipe to use as a backer if you want to weld that upper inner panel that sits away from the ribbed back. I can see how you might be down hearted about it since I bet you paid a pretty penny for a cab free from their normal problems. Don't give up on it....you'll get it!

 

[340sFastback]

I always use sheet metal screws to hold panel bonded panels together. Then come back the next day and the screws spin right out. No need for rivets. Rivets sounds like a hack so might be body filler or caulk in there. Panel bond is around $60 - $70 a tube and need special gun to apply. Usually panel bond ppl are not going to rivet stuff together. Given cost of panel bond most hacks don't wanna pay up for it.

 

[JDMopar]

Does it have a headliner that screws to the inside roof? If it does you can patch the roof pretty easy and the inner part will hide behind the headliner. The outer roof will be easy peasy to fix if you cut out the inner roof panel just enough to get to good straight edges. Fix the outer, paint the inside part of that with Rustoleum or similar. Then form a new inner roof panel patch to weld in.

 

[volaredon]

Yeah it had a headliner in it that I threw away.
And I thought I mentioned it before (maybe it was just on the other forum I've been talking about it on) but the only seam sealer that I know of that will come into play for this part of the job, is the original from when the truck was brand new at the cab floor/cab wall junction, now sandwiched between the original factory cab wall that remained and the patched in section of cab wall.
It doesn't appear that any actual seam sealer that's there is anything that wasn't applied by Dodge on day 1.
On the copper backer for welds .. I have some 1/4" thick x 2-1/2" wide x about 2 ft long sitting here that I use when I have to weld something thin that I use as a (temporary) backer while I weld. I was gonna slide that in between the inner and outer roof and prop it up against the outer skin and weld that up. I can get right at it thru the cargo light hole. And I'll probably be putting some kind of fabric headliner back in the interior so that will hide whatever I do to fix the inner roof.

That's the whole thing with the back wall/ it will be hidden and out of sight at the end of the day so any repairs won't be as obvious as they would be on, (for example) the bed sides or doors, but it looks half assed and butchered to me and at the end of the day I know it's there and it aggravates me. I have lots invested in this thing already, am always hearing about the ever growing pile of parts and money spent on it, even if I'm the only one who knows about the "ugly" I don't like it. With the scope of a body off job I want to make sure it's right. I wanted to have this to the body shop already so I can get my freshly blasted and primed frame in the garage so I can redo the suspension and get the power train set in while the rest is in body shop jail.

 

[volaredon]

Dang, I see how much they hacked now! Somehow, I had it envisioned to just be a smaller hole cut in the middle, but it looks like they cut a door gap or something in there. Looks like they spent hours with a pop rivet gun. If it were me doing it, I would find the easiest place to do like you said and drill out 6 or 8" of pop rivets. Since you can get to most of them from the inside, grind the tails off the pop rivets to keep from making the holes bigger. Once you get the filler ground off on the outside, you can take a small punch and knock them out from the inside. Once you get those out of the way in a pretty decent sized space, you can see if you can work a putty knife between the panels. If you can do that, it ain't panel bond adhesive and probably just caulking or seam sealer.

That's just it I didn't think about the "panel bond" possibility until member "Poorboy" posted the question about "could it be" over on moparts.
And from what those apparently more familiar with panel bond is saying im gonna ruin what's left in trying to remove it if in fact that's what I'm dealing with.
I never asked for this next part but can appreciate it... Out of the blue a member on that other site PMd me over there and offered me a rust free cab in Florida for a hard to pass up price so I can just move on with that. Only problem would be the cost involved in getting that cab from Florida to Illinois. I'm sure there's several closer to me than that that could be had, but it would cost me more to get that cab here than his asking price. Whether I had it shipped or whether I took a week off and drove down. If I can't get this crap off whatever it is though, getting another cab would be seriously considered.

 

[JDMopar]

The cab in FL would sure be something to consider. If you've got something that would pull a U Haul trailer one way, you might be able to go get it on a long weekend for pretty much gas money and one night, two at most for Motel 6. Rent a trailer in FL, load it up, strap it down then boogey. You might even check with Rhino to see what he would charge to haul it back on one of his FL trips. Y'all live in the same state.

 

[volaredon]

Yeah it's in the back of my head....
I have 3 full frame V8 powered vehicles that I pull trailers with. And I pulled my 6-1/2x13 trailer to Savannah and back a few years ago with one of my Durango's. I went down empty, and I came back with that trailer heaped with 80s Dodge truck parts. Some of which will be included on this build. I haven't counted it out. I know that cab will fit my trailer (maybe even in the back of my reg cab long bed pickup, my son thinks it would) without a trailer. I brought this cab I have now, home, on this trailer.
As far as the mystery filler on my current cab ..
It's plain old Bondo. While waiting for the oil to drain on my other Durango, I went at it with a cup wire brush on a 4" angle grinder. Looks pink like Bondo, the dust smells like Bondo and it comes right off which from what I understand, panel bond wouldn't.
They welded up the section where the ribs stop, up to the window opening and what weld is there don't look too bad so far.
There's one spot I saw separation along the bottom with a little bit of rust between the panels, a little ospho dribbled in there and a little hammer/dolly work then follow up with the mig and that will be alright.

Now that I know that I'm just dealing with plain old Bondo, I feel better about being able to fix it right. They overlapped the new section in with the replacement metal to the inside of the cab/ so it should be easier I believe to fix it right, and hide in the finished product. Old Poorboy on the other side had me worried a bit.
Fixed right, I believe this will be stronger than that back wall would have been, as built from the factory// and as was suggested as the possible reason this cab was doctored in the first place// that an unrestrained load might have poked a hole in it..I think with as much overlap as they provided between new to old, it would now be more resistant to that.
I don't think that's why this is how it is, because of the size of the patched in section// but I don't have a crystal ball either. I would think there would be evidence of the damage left in some of the original cab structures if that were the case.
On my first truck, I built a home made flat bed for and had stuff smack the cab more than once, never put a hole in it but beat it up pretty good... I didn't have a front wall as part of the flat bed in that one and I should have. But that was 35 years ago already...
I still think some sort of "conversion" was done on the truck that this cab was originally from/ where the original back wall was cut out intentionally for whatever this truck was originally used for.
There's at least 1-1/2" of overlap between the replacement section and the original, if I weld up both seams (even skip welded) from both inside and out, I think it will be fine.

Another question about the panel bond idea:
I still have to cut out the transmission tunnel and replace it with the bigger version. I WILL be welding that in. Would "panel bond" in such an application be a suitable "seam sealer?.
In another truck I used to own (78 D300 dually) i welded in patches in its "Fred Flintstone floor" and then I hand laid fiberglass over the whole floor pan. That definitely tightened things up as well as sealing the seams and sure made it quiet in that cab...
I'm not gonna "glass in" this floor but before any carpet gets laid I do have plenty of (forgot the actual product name, it was leftovers from one of my son's projects)! Hush mat, dyno mat, or something similar that I plan to use. If I can find the interior panels as used on the higher end version of these trucks I plan on putting those in as a cover up for the inside of the cab to hide the "craftsmanship" from the inside anyway. My main concern is leaks from road splash getting in between and rotting things out.
I have talked to the body guy about spraying something like bed liner both in the bed and 2-4" up from the bottom all the way along the sides of the truck and he suggested Taking that a step farther and spraying the entire underneath with it too. I'll probably have that idea extended further yet and have him do the outside back wall of the cab up to a couple of inches below the top wall of the bed....
I've asked rhino for prices for hauling before and compared to me taking off and doing it myself, by the time I buy gas food and places to stay along the way, vs what I have available to me right here without having to go more than 20 miles from home, the money not spent for either going after something else or having that something else shipped in, can go a very long way towards using what my son and I already have stashed and stored away that we already own. I have plenty, there Will leftovers of 80s truck stuff sold off once this project is done....

 

[340sFastback]

I used panel bond as seam sealer inside and under car when I did full floor replacement. One draw back is cost per tube and you need dual tube gun to apply. Regular seam sealer is a lot cheaper and can use regular caulk gun. But I liked panel bond so thats what I used.

 

[volaredon]

I was just asking about that, because of being a floor pan/ and panel bond supposed to be "so" strong and hopefully water tight that it actually (might) be a good application for it....
I have a water leak on my 85 at the cowl/firewall/ cab seam because the original seam sealer in there popped and cracked apart.... I need to pull the front fenders (hood is still off from motor replacement) so I can access those seams
.. as well as replace the seam sealer that cracked out and fell out inside the cowl area...
so this information will apply there as well.
what's with this "brush on" seam sealer?
I notice factory seam sealer has what looks like brush marks in it as well... I stripped every inch of seam sealer out of my gutted volare years ago... That was a chore, it definitely wasn't as brittle as what was in my truck with the water leak at the cowl