Phoenix Specialty Coatings' Price Structure Changing -- Your Opinion is Requested

State your preference for your PSC FABO Discount

  • 10% labor discount across the board

    Votes: 37 52.1%
  • 15% off for Gold Members only

    Votes: 21 29.6%
  • Reduced hourly rate

    Votes: 6 8.5%
  • I have no interest in using Phoenix Specialty Coatings

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • Who's Leanna??

    Votes: 5 7.0%

  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .
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CudaChick1968

Leanna ~ The Mistress of Metal
FABO Vendor
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
11,204
Reaction score
4,756
Location
Greenfield, Tennessee
I will be changing Phoenix Specialty Coatings' pricing structure in the near future.

Summing up, after a few years in business, it's become apparent that some people are paying too much and others aren't paying nearly enough for the quality of services being rendered. It needs to be fair to everybody for what they're getting out of it.

Since the inception, quotes have been custom tailored (and will continue to be so). A review of the price list on my website shows a ballpark rate for certain things. Various individual factors thrown in sway that number a little bit one way or the other -- clean / already blasted parts, repairs indicated, color choices, polishing desired, etc., etc., etc. Rather than continue on with the way I've been doing things, I'm going to be charging an hourly rate for labor. Materials and special order powders will be charged as they always have been, at actual cost.

As a bit of explanation for those who've never worked with PSC, it's not unusual that I'll spend a few days working on one project whereas other commercial shops believe in quantity over quality. I have no intention of compromising the way I do things, cutting corners or letting the caliber of work slip one iota. But let's face it -- $165 for a pair of one-off custom valve covers that take a few days to work up by hand makes for a miserable bottom line when you break it into an hourly wage. My prices have always been comparable to the competition ..... and therein lies the problem.

If you've looked at the website at all over the last couple of years, you probably noticed that the parts are starting to change; there's a big emphasis on factory restorations, extreme high end builds, and even some trim repair. Generic black brackets and pulleys seem to be a thing of the past around here, and a lot of the stuff that's arriving these days needs quite a bit of repair work in addition to powder coating. PSC's turning into a full fledged parts restoration shop! And it's really cool -- the caliber of metal and the people who own it are absolutely outstanding.

Anyway, this is where ya'll come in.

I've always offered FABO discounts, 10% for everybody and 20% for Gold members. What I'd like to know from the FABO population is what your personal preference is as your PSC FABO Member Discount: a percentage off the labor across the board at the end of the job, or a reduced hourly rate? Please give it some thought and check the appropriate box on the poll.

Feel free, as always, to toss your suggestions out there if you have any. I wouldn't ask if your answers didn't mean anything! FABO has greatly helped shape PSC's past and it's important to me that you all be involved in its future as well. :-D
 
I do not know enough about powder coating to give any advice. I've not had any thing done by you but if I need quality I'll be sure to come to you.:salute:

Nuttyprof
 
Just kidding.I think you will be fair.And we will all say thank you for what ever we get.
 
Hourly rate if there was a web cam and you were in a bikini??
 
Leanna, Do you have an hourly rate? I would treat your services like a repair or body shop. $$$ per hour + materials. (time and materials) You should mark up materials too. Your estimates are exactly that, estimates. If you have a problem like you did with my valve cover and it's not your fault, it's only fair that you charge more. The hourly rate is also easy to change for discounts or price increases. You are passionate about your work but you should be rewarded for the fine job you do. tmm
 
The exact number is still up in the air right now, but I'm thinking around $15.00 with the reduced FABO rate around $12.50. The highly technical aspects should probably warrant a higher rate, but time spent monitoring curing parts for instance should be less so it all evens out in the end.

But the main thing is I want to find a happy medium between what the work is actually worth, where I'm not struggling to make ends meet like it has been, or pricing myself out of consideration altogether.

Thanks for helping me out with this gang!!! :-D
 
Leanna, I am not at the stage in my build that I am ready to send you anything but next year when I am, I will be sending it to you not because of a price, but more for the quality of your work and attention to detail that is evident in the pieces that you turn out. From what I have seen from other members on this site, your reputation has been well earned.
 
The exact number is still up in the air right now, but I'm thinking around $15.00 with the reduced FABO rate around $12.50. The highly technical aspects should probably warrant a higher rate, but time spent monitoring curing parts for instance should be less so it all evens out in the end.

But the main thing is I want to find a happy medium between what the work is actually worth, where I'm not struggling to make ends meet like it has been, or pricing myself out of consideration altogether.

Thanks for helping me out with this gang!!! :-D



FYI,your time should be more valuable than $15/hr !! Giving a Gold Member discount also promotes this sites continued success which in turn offers you more exposure !!Which I'm sure most guys on here would truly love !!! Then you have your actual cost of materials !! Back once upon a time I was into Wood Crafts. It was suggested that I figure out what my hourly wage should be,add that to the cost of materials,and multiply by 3 !! The last # is always adjustable !! But as you yourself said,the amount of time doesn't coincide the monetary amount !!
 
Leanna,
Obviously, there are several ways to look at how you generate your income. You can do it time and material, cost plus, per piece, etc. What it basically boils down to is what you project as your annual business income requirement (to keep the doors open). Let's face it, you do this as a job, not a hobby, and you need to make a profit - the fun is just a bonus.

If I understand what you said, it sounds to me like you have primarily been taking in a piece and estimating a cost based upon your experience - your time hasn't actually had a value placed on it up until now. You can closely guess (estimate) how much material will be used, but the hourly rate for your labor was not factored in. A valve cover in this color and needing these repairs and preparation will run $$$. A similar valve cover in a different color and needing these additional repairs and preparation will run $$$$$. Like you said, a $165 total bill less the material cost leaves very little per hour for your labor over two days work.

One way to look at it is that your annual income needs to be a certain amount. You can achieve that amount either through the hours you work for it at a particular rate (plus materials consumed), or you can get it through completing a given number of jobs (say an average of six jobs per month at an average cost of $$$). The trick is determining which method seems to work best for your type of business.

When estimating a job, I would suppose the easy part is figuring in the material costs. The biggest variable is probably your time involved in preparing the parts for coating (including repairs if necessary). If you estimate your time using your experience with similar items and apply some hourly rate, I doubt seriously that you are going to charge your customer much more, if any, should you run over on that estimated time (I think I know you well enough to assume that). On the other hand, if you estimate the cost using a reasonable average from other similar items you have previously done, then your hourly rate is irrelevant.

At the risk of seeming to minimize your anguish over this subject, how about developing a "menu" style of pricing? Could you list a base price for various categories of pieces in a standard color, ie. intakes, valve covers, air cleaner lids, cat bells, etc.? Then set prices (not hourly rates) for additional work to be done per piece. Then add for special order colors or multiple layers of coating. Once all the various specifications are set and a final cost is determined, there it is.

In the long run, does it really matter whether your income is based upon the hours you spend each day/week/month, or upon the number of pieces you complete in the same period of time? The bottom line is the total dollars.

Didn't mean to get so long-winded, but I feel your pain. I used to struggle with a similar quandary over hourly rates vs. lump sum prices for freelance CAD drafting services. Some clients wanted hourly rates and some wanted a fixed price for each drawing. Somewhere, you will find what works best for you.
 
You should quote the individual job, period. It's no one's business what you make per hour. You are not a regular shop, everything you do is custom. And if there's the possibility that the job might run more, that should also be made clear up front.
 
I would time your work figure what you want to make and thats the bill. It sounds like you have been in the business for a while and can tell how much time something will take you. I paint cars and if i see a crap load of work i add it if they dont like it its the USA they can go to Cracko or Earl Skimp. I try not to rob my customers and myself just my 2 cents. I will be bringing you my stuff to powder coat sending you a pm. Thanks
 
You should quote the individual job, period. It's no one's business what you make per hour. You are not a regular shop, everything you do is custom. And if there's the possibility that the job might run more, that should also be made clear up front.

x2
 
Not trying to school you but-If this is a hobby to you,then price it as just that.However if you are running a business I can see where the 15 an hour is starvation wages.Oh sure,you may lose some of the cheap guy's but if you are out there for them expect to make a living at something else and hobby this.Times are tough and people are not throwing money around like they were a few years back,but that doesn't mean you have to work for scraps.Quality remains long after the price is forgotten.If they can't afford it how many times can you give it to them?Hope you are at the Monster Mopar in St Louis,
 
Hourly rate if there was a web cam and you were in a bikini??

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :tongue9: :tongue9: :tongue9: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:


Ok, seriously. How about an hourly rate for prep, and then a price for the powder coating. That way you can factor in the amount of powder coat into the price to cover the difference in the quantity of powder coat needed for the large jobs vs the smaller jobs. So you get a fair price for the material. Then apply the FABO discount to the bottom line.


And the bikini and webcam ain't a bad idea... [-o< :prayer: [-o< :prayer: [-o<

Great idea Ink... :cheers:
 
Buy Nice, or buy twice... I would rather see you charge a hourly rate and continue high quality work then anything else, the hourly rate sounds good to me, especially if you could give a estimated hours to people with parts needing work... I think the gold member thing makes sense, to give perks to those guys. I hope to be sending stuff to ya soon.

JOE
 
Oh sure,you may lose some of the cheap guy's QUOTE]
And here is the real problem. Most people feel that people should work for next to nothing. A while back a member posted a link to a header builder. There was all kinds of comments about how pricey the guys stuff is. Does not seem to matter that he is one of the best header builders around, just that he charges so much. Did not seem to matter that his headers are not a one size fits all, that they are calculated for YOUR motor. Nobody mentioned the step design with the merge collector, all things that add power. The only thing they seen was how much $$$ they are. In the words of another member, and this is not a direct quote but very close.....Mopar guys tend to be a bunch of cheap bastards. My buddy had a fab shop. They had 2 labor rates. One for prep/mechanical work, going over a vehicle to make sure it was ready for a Baja race, the other was fab work, which was double the prep work rate. Maybe you should figure out what part of your job takes the most woman hours to do, perhaps the more physically challenging, the one that takes the expertise, and come up with a rate for that, then a reduced rate for the other end of your duties.
 
Oh wow, this is GREAT!!! Exactly what I'm needing to hear ... please keep them coming. Everyone's input is valuable here and will be taken into consideration.

Well ... except for that bikini web cam thing. :-D Ya might catch Billy wandering around the shop in his PSC Thong or somethin.
 
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