Photos Sub Frame Connectors

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I like the layout there too. I was looking for a way to brace the floor for my buckets and that might be one more thing I can do just to make it a bit stronger.
 
eaglesguy1981j said:
I like the layout there too. I was looking for a way to brace the floor for my buckets and that might be one more thing I can do just to make it a bit stronger.
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I want build upon your idea a bit. The 4 attachment points for buckets form a roughly square shape. One could build a boxed area under the floor pan and tie it into the frame. It's not really that simple actually,never mind...
 
I was actually going to make my own new floor pan and brace it from the underside. For the bucket seats im just going to build like a trapazoid to mount the seats on and weld nuts on the back side to bolt them down. But the braces he made look like they would work great.
 
The mid-span supports were made out of 16ga. I would still weld to the floor pan. With the amount of flexing the panel adhesive will have to withstand I dont think it will last. Just my .02
Oh- the reason I used 1 1/2" x 3" is that I did not want to put anything in place lower than the frame rails, ground clearance is an issue with this build.
Andrew
 
blue missile said:
The mid-span supports were made out of 16ga. I would still weld to the floor pan. With the amount of flexing the panel adhesive will have to withstand I dont think it will last. Just my .02
Oh- the reason I used 1 1/2" x 3" is that I did not want to put anything in place lower than the frame rails, ground clearance is an issue with this build.
Andrew
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Mine too... But I just decided to raise the whole floor and go for broke! :cheers:
 
needsaresto said:
In theory not a bad idea. But dont know how to get around putting holes in your floor pan via the sheetmetal screws that are necessary while the panel adhesive cures. This is a MUST with adhesive. You could fill the holes in with plug welds but it comes down to the same thing.
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It doesn't expand, so long as the frame connector is being held tight to the floor pan by virtue of it being welded to the cross member and spring perch in back, the pan won't move. The reason you use sheet metal screws usually when using panel bond adhesive is so that the two pieces you are trying to bond together don't move around and end up curing in the wrong alignment or aren't held together tightly. In this application, the floor pan is not going to move, and once the frame connectors are welded in, they aren't moving either relative to the pan.
 
blue missile said:
The mid-span supports were made out of 16ga. I would still weld to the floor pan. With the amount of flexing the panel adhesive will have to withstand I dont think it will last. Just my .02
Oh- the reason I used 1 1/2" x 3" is that I did not want to put anything in place lower than the frame rails, ground clearance is an issue with this build.
Andrew
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The frame connectors will still be welded to the crossmember and spring perches. I can't imagine it flexing that much between the floor pan and the frame connector. Today's structural panel bond adhesives are stronger than welds and the metal will fail and rip before the adhesive will if properly applied.
 
ok your missing the point. The adhesive MUST be applied very thin. Screws are not needed just for panel alignment,but to make sure the gap is as tight as possible between the new and old metal.

Unless things have changed you cant apply the glue thick and depend on it to cure right. At least with welding you can bridge some gaps.

Your dreaming if you think the floor pan doesnt flex. As it was put by BJdakron,these A bodies have all the stiffness of a cooked lniguinie noodle. Mopars are some of the first unit body cars ever made and as such theres a lot of room for improvement. One thing other builders started doing is using urethane to glue the front windows in thier vehicles. It made the windsheild part of the structure and much stronger. Mopars used buytl,partly because it was what was available but also because the winshield must be free to move separate from the car,or it cracks. My point being;unit body cars flex quite a lot,otherwise there would be no need for frame connecters
 
Ok you're missing some technical reading, let me help you out.

http://semproducts.com/images/Users/1/TDS/39537 WELD-BOND ADHESIVE.pdf

Now this SEM product can be applied to a maximum bond line thickness of 0.50" or half an inch for those of you in Rio Linda and still maintain its maximum shear strength. I never said that the floor pans don't flex, I said that the metal will fail before the adhesive will. I said the floor pan won't move while I'm welding it which is true unless you weld things going down the highway, I prefer to do it with the car sitting still and on a hoist. To each their own I guess.
 
Things HAVe changed then. When those adhesives first started showing up in bodyshops,we had to scrape it really thin.1/2" leaves a TON of leeway.

What the heck,try it out. I know there are cars still on the road I glued 1/4 panels etc on and they still look great,so the adhesive lasts. In fact I think repair shops are now required to use it as it saves a lot of time.
 
needsaresto said:
ok your missing the point. The adhesive MUST be applied very thin. Screws are not needed just for panel alignment,but to make sure the gap is as tight as possible between the new and old metal.

Unless things have changed you cant apply the glue thick and depend on it to cure right. At least with welding you can bridge some gaps.

Your dreaming if you think the floor pan doesnt flex. As it was put by BJdakron,these A bodies have all the stiffness of a cooked lniguinie noodle. Mopars are some of the first unit body cars ever made and as such theres a lot of room for improvement. One thing other builders started doing is using urethane to glue the front windows in thier vehicles. It made the windsheild part of the structure and much stronger. Mopars used buytl,partly because it was what was available but also because the winshield must be free to move separate from the car,or it cracks. My point being;unit body cars flex quite a lot,otherwise there would be no need for frame connecters
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if you want proof of the flex hook up an engine hoist to the from bumper holes of a dart without the front fenders bolted to the car. my front frame rails flexed a good inch or two before the car was lifted off of the jackstands that were placed under the frame rails at the firewall...
 
I too have a body shop background, I managed a medium sized one for about 4 years. I have been out of the business for quite a while but my buddy still owns the shop, I own an old car, so I try to stay current with all the new products. Things do not stand still in the chemicals world, and it is highly competitive between SEM, Lord Fusor, 3M, etc..... to ever improve the formulas. I think it's going to work great in this application.
 
inkjunkie said:
if you want proof of the flex hook up an engine hoist to the from bumper holes of a dart without the front fenders bolted to the car. my front frame rails flexed a good inch or two before the car was lifted off of the jackstands that were placed under the frame rails at the firewall...
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I didn't say that these old cars never flex, what I said, or what I meant to say, is that the floor pan won't flex enough to tear off a 3"x 18" long patch of panel bond adhesive that's stuck to a 2x3 steel tube. If it flexes that much, the sheet metal will rip before the adhesive gives way.
 
We use the adhesive at the body shop where I work to glue on bedsides... Amazing stuff... Really amazing!
 
It is truly amazing stuff,actually stronger than steel and welds. So Redness is right about the floor pan simply tearing before the glue.

I havent used the stuff in years,so thanks for the info!
 
I still feel funny about using it for something this structural.. maybe I'm just old school. I'll do some research and see how it stands up to continued stress.. this might make some cool things a lot easier to do...
 
For those who put connectors in while still using the car. What difference did you notice in the ride/handling?
 
Huge difference, because I drove the car to the place where we installed them and drove it home afterwards.
WAY less interior noises from the body flex, and way more stable in uneven surface corners and driveway curbs.
It was the one single thing done to the car that made the biggest difference.
 

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I used the US Car & Tool product. They are custom cut to contour the floor for specific years. My car is a 68 convertible and I had to trim the rear section of the connector to clear the factory boxes found on convertibles and most 340/383 cars. Cars without the factory boxed rails should be ok.
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needsaresto said:
I want build upon your idea a bit. The 4 attachment points for buckets form a roughly square shape. One could build a boxed area under the floor pan and tie it into the frame. It's not really that simple actually,never mind...
Click to expand...

Kinda like this... for my CTS seats with built in seatbelts.
I plan to tie the center sections together to form a driveshaft loop, and incorporate them into a subframe connector. Not sure what it will look like yet.
 

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  • CTS seat rails pass.jpg
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Romeo said:
For those who put connectors in while still using the car. What difference did you notice in the ride/handling?
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Huge plus. The ride seems a little stiffer and there seems to be a little less body roll.

I couldn't believe the difference after putting mine in, I placed a jack under the frame connector toward the rear of the car and it will lift the whole side of the car, and I can still open and close the door with no binding.
 
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