No, no scary stuff happened. Everything works!
I never run it long enough. Will report back in 8 days when the alt gets here. Hopefully with it charging properly. Thanks again for your help!
Please help Me.."Overcharging"?
- Thread starter Ruger64
- Start date
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No, no scary stuff happened. Everything works!
I never run it long enough. Will report back in 8 days when the alt gets here. Hopefully with it charging properly. Thanks again for your help!
Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
What auto part store takes a week to get a common alternator?
I know. Its advance auto. They still had my old 1 sitting there. I should have gotten it back and went and had a place put on a new pulley and have it rebuilt. But it's too late I already have them order the right 1 for the car. Hopefully it is the right 1. But it does show two male spades like the one I need. I should have just grabbed my old one back and left.
Okay, reporting back early. I called Auto Supermarket today, they had it in stock. The only brand they had was "Rely".
Never heard of it. But I bought it.
I stopped at advance and grabbed my core and canceled my order.
I put it on, and all seems fine!
I do keep a Battery Tender on my car, just for reference.
Volts:
Car off: 12.87..approx.
Car Idle: 13.80 approx
Soon as I hit the throttle, I am at 14.80.
With lights on and radio, drops to about 14.70 while hitting the throttle
I guess I am okay?
Never heard of it. But I bought it.
I stopped at advance and grabbed my core and canceled my order.
I put it on, and all seems fine!
I do keep a Battery Tender on my car, just for reference.
Volts:
Car off: 12.87..approx.
Car Idle: 13.80 approx
Soon as I hit the throttle, I am at 14.80.
With lights on and radio, drops to about 14.70 while hitting the throttle
I guess I am okay?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
That's "fair" but you probably have SOME v drop
Put one meter probe on battery POS post, and the other on the blue alternator field wire. Turn the; key to "run" with engine off. Read the voltage, and you are hoping for LESS than .3V (three tenths of one volt) Any more means you have drop in the ignition harness. This voltage ADDS to the regulator set point. 1/2 volt, example, will take a properly operating voltage regulator at 13.8--14.2 and add 1/2 volt for 14.7.
I should have mentioned, also, to check charging voltage WARM if you did not. The regulator is someone temp. sensitive.
Next make sure of your regulator GROUND, which works the same way as harness drop, IE voltage drop across the ground path ALSO adds to the regulator voltage.
To do that, start the engine, run at a simulated "low cruise" RPM, and make the following check with all loads OFF, and then with heater blower, lights, etc, ON.
Put one probe of your meter on battery NEG post, and the other stab right into the regulator flange.
Once again, you are hoping for NOT MORE than .2V, and zero would be perfect
Put one meter probe on battery POS post, and the other on the blue alternator field wire. Turn the; key to "run" with engine off. Read the voltage, and you are hoping for LESS than .3V (three tenths of one volt) Any more means you have drop in the ignition harness. This voltage ADDS to the regulator set point. 1/2 volt, example, will take a properly operating voltage regulator at 13.8--14.2 and add 1/2 volt for 14.7.
I should have mentioned, also, to check charging voltage WARM if you did not. The regulator is someone temp. sensitive.
Next make sure of your regulator GROUND, which works the same way as harness drop, IE voltage drop across the ground path ALSO adds to the regulator voltage.
To do that, start the engine, run at a simulated "low cruise" RPM, and make the following check with all loads OFF, and then with heater blower, lights, etc, ON.
Put one probe of your meter on battery NEG post, and the other stab right into the regulator flange.
Once again, you are hoping for NOT MORE than .2V, and zero would be perfect
Thanks! I did have it warmed up.
I will print this out and take it to into the garage tomorrow.
I was wondering what is my regulator ground? I just have two wires going to the regulator. Sorry for the dumbness.
I was even trying to find my engine to body/frame ground.
I don't see one anywhere??
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Your regulator MUST be grounded right to "electrically the same" as battery neg. On most Mopars this was originally marginal.
The battery is grounded with the main cable to the block, which has a poor ground to the body/ "frame." Usually, a pigtail runs from the neg battery clamp to somewhere on the fender/ etc
I like to use a no 4 "starter" (ring to ring) cable. Your driver side cylinder head has unused holes in the back -- just look at the front of the pass. side, LOL.
Bolt about a 1 foot starter cable to the driver side rear of the head, and run over to say, the master cylinder bolt
You can also use a no 10 or s0 wire from the block over to the regulator mount.
The battery is grounded with the main cable to the block, which has a poor ground to the body/ "frame." Usually, a pigtail runs from the neg battery clamp to somewhere on the fender/ etc
I like to use a no 4 "starter" (ring to ring) cable. Your driver side cylinder head has unused holes in the back -- just look at the front of the pass. side, LOL.
Bolt about a 1 foot starter cable to the driver side rear of the head, and run over to say, the master cylinder bolt
You can also use a no 10 or s0 wire from the block over to the regulator mount.
Thanks, I appreciate it!! I know the regulator just has two bolts holding to the firewall, and then of course just the two wires.
I did see my battery Negative, was bolts to the pwr steering bracket to the block. I may clean that up, looks crummy there!
okay, I am frustrated. I am going to try the tests you showed above to see if I can find a leak in the system.
I did run a heavy wire from the intake manifold to the master. I did clean everything up really well!
I even put a new regulator on.
I am not at 15.00 while idling...ugh!! It got worse. It is a bit cold here today though. Like in the low 30's. That may be why it jumped a bit. But either way...ya know..
I did notice, that both the two self tapping style VR bolts that hold it to the firewall, just keep turning.
It is tight against the firewall. But those holes seemed stripped out to me.
1. Okay, the test with engine OFF from the POS battery to the blue wire...Is that taking the blue wire OFF the alt and check it there at the end of the wire?
2. I am sorry I don't know what you mean here exaclty? The second check is to stab into the Regulator flange? I have two wires going to the regulator?
Also wondering if this advance auto parts VR was a bad idea. Made in China.....MY original factory one to the car was working. Just on the high side like 14.70 or so
Sorry, I am good at working on cars. But bad at this wiring stuff!
TheMoparMan
Modifies everything
When replacing the alternator, always replace the voltage regulator as well. As ours are external they need to be replaced separately. Other later model cars the regulator is internal and gets replaced with the alternator.
TheMoparMan
Modifies everything
Even a simple jump start with a battery pack can fry a voltage regulator if not done properly. AAA did that to me once trying to diagnose a battery issue. Had to go pickup a new regulator. It was free at I bought the lifetime replacement one from Oreileys. Was worth the extra to cover the part
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Sorry but this is largely not correct. No reason to replace solid state regulators especially, as they don't "wear out."
Frankly I don't see this happening.
younggun2.0
Well-Known Member
I just had the same problem with my car. I have just finished installing a painless wire harness in the entire car. had the voltage reg wired up correctly but it was charging at 15-16 volt at idle and would peg the volt gauge as soon as you rev'd the engine. I couldnt figure it out for the life of me. mine ended up being a grounded brush to the alt, housing. the screw that holds the brush in the housing should have a fiber washer under the head of the bolt. mine didn't. it was grounding out the field and letting the alternator charge at full power.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
If the regulator mount bolts are stripped, that is probably the problem. The regulator must be grounded to "same as battery negative" and it never can be if the bolts won't tighten, and if the bolts won't tighten, it's unlikely that a good electrical connection is made. Do whatever it takes, use larger bolts, weld up the holes, etc.
No, don't remove any wires when doing this test. What you are trying to find out, here, is if there is a "voltage drop" (simply, a loss of voltage) on the "road" from the battery, through the harness, and to the regulator. the blue alternator wire comes from the same place as the regulator blue wire, that is, the "ignition run" buss on the switch side of the ballast.
So by accessing an "easy" place with your meter, and the battery positive post, you are directly measuring this voltage drop.
This may be hard to swallow, but once again you are checking for voltage drop. There is a "circuit path" from ACTUAL ground--which is specifically the battery negative POST. EVERY other ground connection, if "good" should be at this same voltage
Let's sidetrack.............let's say you are cranking the engine. The starter ground path is...........
Battery neg post----battery clamp-----battery ground cable-------to engine block---to starter housing-------to starter internal winding "ground."
Now since the starter is a high current load, this can cause a LOT of voltage drop if cables, clamps, terminals are not tight.
So to check the starter ground path, example, you could stab one probe of your meter directly onto the battery neg. post. Stab the other probe right onto the engine BLOCK. The fact is, that the ground PATH described above WILL have some voltage drop. Probably the greatest will be right in the post--to battery clamp connection. But you can MEASURE this with your meter.
In fact you can do that and try it. You should show less than .4V (4 tenths of one volt) and "good to great" would be less than .3V (three tenths of one volt.)
BACK to checking your regulator ground. You MUST have CURRENT to cause voltage drop. So in the case of the regulator ground, the system must be charging. In this case, the ground path is............
battery neg. post-----battery clamp-------cable--------engine block------jumper from block to body/ firewall------regulator mounting bolts--------regulator case/ mounting flange
OR alternatively, if you have a jumper ground from the battery to the fender, the path is...........
battery neg post-------battery clamp---------fender bolt or radiator support-----through the body to firewall---------regulator bolts--------regulator case/ mounting flange
Now your meter is going to measure ACROSS the first and last points in this "Map", this road to the regulator.
So again, with engine running and charging, you want one meter probe right directly on the battery NEG post, and the other right on the metal mounting case/ flange of the regulator.
If the VR has a painted case, remove the paint on the back side at the bolt hole.
If its got a chrome case be sure the surface is clean of clear coat or the firewall of paint.
Use star washers on the mounting bolts.
Holes on firewall stripped ? Punch (not drill) new starter holes (ice pick) then let the self tapping bolts cut new threads.
The VR case grounds the regulator on the 2 wire system.
If its got a chrome case be sure the surface is clean of clear coat or the firewall of paint.
Use star washers on the mounting bolts.
Holes on firewall stripped ? Punch (not drill) new starter holes (ice pick) then let the self tapping bolts cut new threads.
The VR case grounds the regulator on the 2 wire system.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Actually the VR case establishes ground on nearly ANY VR
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
I always run a separate ground wire to the case of the regulator. A sheet metal screw hole is almost certainly going to get rusty over time and cause mysterious problems. That is one thing they did right in my old M-B, numerous ground wire connections all over the cars.
TheMoparMan
Modifies everything
Don't have to see it......... I have...... It's when the dumb technician used the jump pack on my car to start it with out the battery connected. I had stepped away heard it start, and came out to find the regulator slightly smoking and hot to the touch.
Used a test light and it was fried..... Went and got another one and it was fine.
TheMoparMan
Modifies everything
Yes in your case where you have an original one they were made better.....
For those that have had the pleasure of dealing with the inferior made Chinese knockoff parts, they do go bad and burn out. Not because of the original design but, shoddy soldering, bad wiring, over all bad quality control........ No they are not supposed to go bad quickly but they will and do...... If you get lucky then by all means keep it. Sometimes you go thru 3 or 4 of them till you get a good one.
I finally got a good one and its been fine for 3 years so far. But went thru a couple right away that we're bad. My buddy who's a Mgr for the local parts house bitches about this issue with a lot of the Chinese made or rebuilt parts.... They get a lot of returns.
I don't know what made it better, since I didn't check with each thing I did. However....
I am at 14.5 volts now at idle warmed up. It don't go above that.
And it is in the 20's here right now!!
I cleaned a lot of grounds and also changed the 42 year old battery cables. I sliced them open, and they were green and brittle.
I did add a new braided line from the head to the firewall.
Wasn't there before!!
Also I put the "Original", Mopar voltage reg back on. Wire wheeled it clean, and the firewall area.
But since the bolts were stripped. I punched new holes and put them back in.
Made it much tighter!!
I dont know which thing did it.
But it dropped from 15.10 down to 14.50 volts at idle. Thats a nice drop to start out with!
Lights on, blower motor, it drops more.
It does not go above 14.50 at all though.
When I put it in gear, it drops a bit more of course, then under throttle, it goes up to about 14.5
I took it to two different places to have it checked, to make sure my handheld was accurate.
One was a Mopar guy. He even said, looks good!
Now I would prefer it be a little lower. But I still have to test the blue line...etc...But its coming down!!!..LOL...I am getting there. But then again, it may be so cold here, that the 14.50 may change when it warms up. I don't feel as upset though, with the 14.5.
Also------>>>>>>> your post on..........The starter ground path is...........
Battery neg post----battery clamp-----battery ground cable-------to engine block---to starter housing-------to starter internal winding "ground."
My negative cable from the battery goes to the pwr steering bracket, "engine block", a pigtail to the core support,
but nothing going to the starter housing from the negative cable?
The POS battery cable to starter, then a little wire on the starter selonoid, to the relay on the fender well?
.
I am at 14.5 volts now at idle warmed up. It don't go above that.
And it is in the 20's here right now!!
I cleaned a lot of grounds and also changed the 42 year old battery cables. I sliced them open, and they were green and brittle.
I did add a new braided line from the head to the firewall.
Wasn't there before!!
Also I put the "Original", Mopar voltage reg back on. Wire wheeled it clean, and the firewall area.
But since the bolts were stripped. I punched new holes and put them back in.
Made it much tighter!!
I dont know which thing did it.
But it dropped from 15.10 down to 14.50 volts at idle. Thats a nice drop to start out with!
Lights on, blower motor, it drops more.
It does not go above 14.50 at all though.
When I put it in gear, it drops a bit more of course, then under throttle, it goes up to about 14.5
I took it to two different places to have it checked, to make sure my handheld was accurate.
One was a Mopar guy. He even said, looks good!
Now I would prefer it be a little lower. But I still have to test the blue line...etc...But its coming down!!!..LOL...I am getting there. But then again, it may be so cold here, that the 14.50 may change when it warms up. I don't feel as upset though, with the 14.5.
Also------>>>>>>> your post on..........The starter ground path is...........
Battery neg post----battery clamp-----battery ground cable-------to engine block---to starter housing-------to starter internal winding "ground."
My negative cable from the battery goes to the pwr steering bracket, "engine block", a pigtail to the core support,
but nothing going to the starter housing from the negative cable?
The POS battery cable to starter, then a little wire on the starter selonoid, to the relay on the fender well?
.
It's back again!! Ugh!!
I thought it was fixed! I was fine for a week at 14.5 volts.
I went for a ride today, and after about 4 miles.
I noticed my radio shut off, and I looked at my factory gauge, and it was pinned over to the right, overcharging.
I pulled on my headlights, high beams, and radio, blower, wipers, to calm it down to make it home.
I got home, put my digital meter on it. It read 17.10, and fluxuating up and down like nuts.
And then all of a sudden dropped to 14.20, and was fine again...
I stuck the one end of the handheld digital meter into the POS side of the battery, "car off", "ignition on", and the other end to the blue wire at aleternator.
It is reading .07 volts. I guess that blue wire is bare somewhere??
It is crazy. It will be fine and then throw a fit and overcharge. Am I onto something with this blue wire being at .07 now???
Also...do I put the black or red end on the digital gauge on the POS battery post?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
.07 drop is fine, the less the better. Does not matter on a digital meter which probe is which, the meter display should show a neg sign when reversed.
I'd check that you don't have a brush holder problem. If the green wire or the brush connected to the green is grounding it will "full field" like that
I'd check that you don't have a brush holder problem. If the green wire or the brush connected to the green is grounding it will "full field" like that
Okay, I just double checked. It was .078-.080, was jumping. While connected.
When I take the blue wire off the ALT, the reading is .03
The green wire I replaced completely, since it only went to the VR and directly to the alt.
I used new wire and put on a new female end and plugged it onto the male spade on the alt, and spliced to the VR pigtail wire.
It isn't doing it all the time. Its nutty. Is this a bad alternator they sold me? As inside as your stating?
Also,....my old alternator didn't do this. My pulley just broke. It was fine last summer. Until my pulley broke and I had to replaced the ALT. thats when this started. I am thinking you are right. Where the green wire hooks onto it, something must be bad inside the ALT??? I honestly didn't have this problem before replacing the ALT.
I just called Auto Supermarket. They are getting me a single pulley that should be on there, instead of the double pulley he sold me. But is sounds like a bad ALT. He also said something about an internal fan...I dunno
Its at 14.50 right now.
With the green wire off, it slowly goes down hill, as in 13.8 and goes down slowly even lower.
The odd thing is, it can be fine for an hour, then start overcharging out of nowhere, and go back to normal.
Without moving the car or bumping anything.
I just find it odd I did not have this problem until I changed the ALT due to a broken pulley.
It was just a broken pulley, was charging fine before the swap.
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