Power advantage between Ford 351, Mopar 340 and Chevy 350??

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My guess would be the 351 Clevo. Due to the cantered valve heads. They do a closed chamber design here that came on the 302 Clevo. You can put them on a 351 for a cheap performance upgrade. They also don't run siamese intake port design, which helps with pushrod pinch issues..
 
TF360 said:
Fish isn't that a GM motor
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Rat Bastid said:
It’s not a Toyota either.
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Your Hemi never been passed by a 5.7 powered Tundra pulling a trailer on a grade. lol
I have. lol Thus the reason I'm diesel powered these days, Ford that is.
But that's not what the threads about, so I'm sorry to the OP for polluting his thread.
The Ford 351 Cleveland wins hands down in a factory HP showdown.
Aftermarket the Bowtie wins, way more parts available.
 
Bakerlite said:
My guess would be the 351 Clevo. Due to the cantered valve heads. They do a closed chamber design here that came on the 302 Clevo. You can put them on a 351 for a cheap performance upgrade. They also don't run siamese intake port design, which helps with pushrod pinch issues..
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They did a closed chamber version here too, with humongous ports. I have a complete 70 model M code Cleveland in the spare bedroom.
 
fishmens67 said:
Your Hemi never been passed by a 5.7 powered Tundra pulling a trailer on a grade. lol
I have. lol Thus the reason I'm diesel powered these days, Ford that is.
But that's not what the threads about, so I'm sorry to the OP for polluting his thread.
The Ford 351 Cleveland wins hands down in a factory HP showdown.
Aftermarket the Bowtie wins, way more parts available.
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I agree about the Cleveland. With ports and chambers like this, the 340 would get left behind at high RPM.
CLEVELAND PORT.JPG
CLEVELAND CHAMBERS.jpg
 
Yes Rusty, I should have mentioned it's a closed chamber 2V head, with the smaller port but they still flow pretty good for a production head.
 
Bakerlite said:
Yes Rusty, I should have mentioned it's a closed chamber 2V head, with the smaller port but they still flow pretty good for a production head.
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They do flow well. The Cleveland is a really good engine.
 
RustyRatRod said:
They do flow well. The Cleveland is a really good engine.
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And yet, in Pro Stock Glidden never won more races in a season than he did with the Dodge in 1979. Dodge again screwed the pooch and didn’t give Glidden the money to stay with Chrysler.
 
Rat Bastid said:
And yet, in Pro Stock Glidden never won more races in a season than he did with the Dodge in 1979. Dodge again screwed the pooch and didn’t give Glidden the money to stay with Chrysler.
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That car was Hemi powered, was it not?
 
Didn’t Clevelands have some kind of a fatal oiling system flaw? And didn’t the early NASCAR small block Fords used a Windsor block and Cleveland heads for that reason?
 
Also, the Cleveland drain back needs work for sustained high RPM.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Also, the Cleveland drain back needs work for sustained high RPM.
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Yep, and they do like to pump a bit of oil upstairs. Put a HV pump on one without addressing some of those issues and you'll see to oil gauge have a fit.
 
Talking FE's.. The last couple I built using the "Rollmaster" timing set, had about 0.030 in gear misalignment.
 
Rat Bastid said:
Nope. It was a 340.
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IIRC, Glidden cut out the lifter galley and welded them back in and stood the lifter bores up to help with pushrod geometry. This was well before 48° blocks were available and is probably how they came about.

My brother has a 73 Mach 1 with a 351C 4V in it, I rebuilt it several years ago and was impressed with the size of the intake ports. A local bracket racer runs a 69 or 70 Mach 1 witha a 351C but he runs 2V heads, said he doesn't turn his engines enough rpm's to use the large ports, he also said his 2V heads pull better early in the run. He's won an a$$ load of money with that old car so I won't contest what he says.
 
justinp61 said:
IIRC, Glidden cut out the lifter galley and welded them back in and stood the lifter bores up to help with pushrod geometry. This was well before 48° blocks were available and is probably how they came about.

My brother has a 73 Mach 1 with a 351C 4V in it, I rebuilt it several years ago and was impressed with the size of the intake ports. A local bracket racer runs a 69 or 70 Mach 1 witha a 351C but he runs 2V heads, said he doesn't turn his engines enough rpm's to use the large ports, he also said his 2V heads pull better early in the run. He's won an a$$ load of money with that old car so I won't contest what he says.
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Glidden did the lifter valley mod and several others were doing it to. It could be that Glidden did all of them or just his. I suppose that fact may be lost to history.

I agree with your brother. Unless you are well over 400 inches and want to make some RPM start with the 2v heads.
 
If mopar had put a solid lifter cam in the 340.

My neighbors had a 69 z28 302. That thing ran like garbage under about 4-5K. The 340 Dart would eat it up until the Z28 got wound up. Another had a 70LT1 Vette, that car ran better down low, still not close to the Dart for grunt. Always fun to tell them this thing only has 275Hp while they were bragging about 350+. Still beat them in the 1/4.

One of the old school guys that streetraced had a 302 Camaro. Thing was like racing a chainsaw. Launching it at 7500, That thing screamed RPM. Meanwhile some others with mopars and BB's are shifting at 5200-6000 and beating it. The camaro needed every bit of the 5.13's it had to launch. Had 3.73's at one time and an old lady pushing a shopping cart would be a car out at the 60' on him. LOL

Can't remember if Ford put a solid lifter in the 351C. I thought they were all hydraulic like mopars. Maybe the Boss was a solid.
 
justinp61 said:
IIRC, Glidden cut out the lifter galley and welded them back in and stood the lifter bores up to help with pushrod geometry. This was well before 48° blocks were available and is probably how they came about.

My brother has a 73 Mach 1 with a 351C 4V in it, I rebuilt it several years ago and was impressed with the size of the intake ports. A local bracket racer runs a 69 or 70 Mach 1 witha a 351C but he runs 2V heads, said he doesn't turn his engines enough rpm's to use the large ports, he also said his 2V heads pull better early in the run. He's won an a$$ load of money with that old car so I won't contest what he says.
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I always wanted to see Ford build a factory 4V 400 HP engine with the 4V heads and closed chambers. That would have been enough to use those heads. The 351 was.....IF you built the snot out of it. Funny too. I have a fresh 400 under the work bench AND a nice pair of 1970 4V closed chamber heads. Makes me think. lol
 
crackedback said:
If mopar had put a solid lifter cam in the 340.

My neighbors had a 69 z28 302. That thing ran like garbage under about 4-5K. The 340 Dart would eat it up until the Z28 got wound up. Another had a 70LT1 Vette, that car ran better down low, still not close to the Dart for grunt. Always fun to tell them this thing only has 275Hp while they were bragging about 350+. Still beat them in the 1/4.

One of the old school guys that streetraced had a 302 Camaro. Thing was like racing a chainsaw. Launching it at 7500, That thing screramed RPM. Meanwhile some others with mopars and BB's are shifting at 5200-6000 and beating it. The camaro needed every bit of the 5.13's it had to launch. Had 3.73's at one time and an old lady pushing a shopping cart would be a car out at the 60' on him. LOL

Can't remember if Ford put a solid lifter in the 351C. I thought they were all hydraulic like mopars. Maybe the Boss was a solid.
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Yes. The 1971 BOSS 351 had 11.3:1 compression and a mild solid cam.
 
Not enough cam or RPM to use the port on the 351. The other big boss, 429, wasn't much in street form, real dog.
 
DionR said:
Didn’t Clevelands have some kind of a fatal oiling system flaw? And didn’t the early NASCAR small block Fords used a Windsor block and Cleveland heads for that reason?
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Cleveland's didn't oil the crank first. Windsor's did. They were cheap (400M's were everywhere with the same heads) when I as growing up and I had 2, never had an oil issue. Did crack 2 heads due to adding water to a hot motor...DOH! Heads were $30 at Pick-a-part back then and it took about an hour to replace them. Boss 351 was the highest HP rated small block per Holdners shoot out.
 
crackedback said:
Not enough cam or RPM to use the port on the 351. The other big boss, 429, wasn't much in street form, real dog.
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I think this is where people's fear of large ports come from.
 
crackedback said:
Not enough cam or RPM to use the port on the 351. The other big boss, 429, wasn't much in street form, real dog.
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I agree 100% and it was all due to retarded cam timing. WTH were they thinkin?
 
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