Power Steering and B/RB in a '72 Duster?

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ramcharger

ramcharger

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I take it this won't happen without a motor mount plate, is this correct? What is the interference point, is it the box, pump or headers? What if a RMS suspension/K frame is used?

Thanks in advance!
 
Power steering is not a problem EXCEPT with headers (Check Schumacher headers, they may fit). My son's 67 Barracuda has power steering (383/4sp), my old 67 fastback had power steering (383/727). I will be putting power steering back in my 67 Barracuda convertible (440/727) and at some point my other son's 67 Dart GT convertible (440/4sp) will get power steering.

The common piece to all of those cars is cast iron exhaust manifolds (B-body HPs).

Also, it's not that I mind the manual steering, but good boxes are hard to find and expensive when you do find them. Even parking lots aren't that bad with manual. We went to power in my son's Barracuda for autocrossing because the 24:1 manual box just had too many turns lock-lock. Power is going back in my convertible so that my wife will have an easier time driving it (she hasn't had the pleasure of driving one of the big block cars, but used to drive the 340 GTS convertible daily).
 
Thank you Jim. :)

Presently I'm hemming and hawing between building a mostly street car and a mostly strip car. I'm now leaning toward a mostly street car that handles really well and with less turns lock to lock and firm feel stage III box. It looks like that's not going to happen with headers with the exception of the relatively low perf Shumacher tri-y's.
 
How much motor are you throwing at it? We've never had the 440 on the strip, but my best guess is that it will run a high 13-sec 1/4 mile. It COULD be quicker, but it has limited traction and 3.23 gears. That's plenty fast for a fun street car. By comparison my older son's 383/4sp/3.55 geared Barracuda has run a best of 14.08 in the 1/4 mile while being completely setup for handling.

Would they both be quicker with headers? Probably, but the cast iron manifolds fit better, leak less, and cause less heat in the engine compartment. It's really all in what you want out of the car and for me it's lots of torque in a driver. I really don't care what 1/4 mile numbers it will put up because it will likely never see the strip.
 
I was thinking of a 500 ci stroker build @ 13.5:1 and a [email protected]" duration solid roller, lol. That was going to be my "Mostly Strip" build. I figured if was going to go big block I may as well go all the way. I was shooting for easily repeatable high 10's to get me in the money brackets here at the dragstrip.

My handling formula would be a stroker LA (much less weight on the front end) and 11:1 with another solid roller in the mid 240 duration range.
 
That's a lot of temperamental motor for the street. Believe me, large cubes and mild cams make for the best street manners.
 
The B stroker I was thinking of would be way more strip then anything else. Rumble on up to a car show or two and some early morning highway blasts, go visit some friends, etc. More of a strip car I would take to BBQ's and car shows. :) It would have a 3500 stall converter and a Dana 60 with 4.11 gears, mini-tub, full roll cage, frame connectors, etc.

The stroker LA would be pretty streetable with the right torque converter and rear gears. 11:1 sounds high I know, but it's not that high at this altitude. I'm running 10.2:1 with a tiny [email protected] cam in a very heavy truck with no problems other than some careful advance curve and carb tuning. A solid roller at say, [email protected] is no more radical than a hydraulic at [email protected]. Add on a 4" stroke and almost 50 more cubic inches plus the correct converter and gears and I'm good to go pretty much anywhere. I have a very high tolerance for big cams and don't have expectations of driving in the winter or back and forth to work, I will not have power brakes and don't expect good mileage either. This build would be my little A-body sports car. I may even go with a 5 speed tranny. This will also be a "stealth" build, no loud colors, stripes or scoops. Cop car steel wheels, cop hub caps, 15" 245/60's all around, 1" torsion bars, frame connectors, tubular UCA's, big brakes, etc.

I think you see where I'm going with this. If I go B/RB I may as well go all the way and start racing again. I do have a manual steering box laying around too. If I go LA, it most certainly would be cheaper and easier to deal with on the street and get way more road time but I think the money classes will be out of reach. I was thinking of something between these two builds using a B/RB.
 
Yeah, that's a completely different approach than what all of my builds have been. I want to be able to jump in the car, fire it up and drive to SoCal (four hours or so) with a single stop for fuel. You will enjoy the good handling, though.
 
Jim Lusk said:
Yeah, that's a completely different approach than what all of my builds have been. I want to be able to jump in the car, fire it up and drive to SoCal (four hours or so) with a single stop for fuel. You will enjoy the good handling, though.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all your input Jim. After weighing all the pros and cons, I think I'm going to go with a LA stroker build.
 
ramcharger said:
My handling formula would be a stroker LA (much less weight on the front end)
Click to expand...

Here's some weight savings to be had with a big block:

Part....................Weight savings
aluminum heads..........58#
intake..................25#
water pump & housing....15#
headers.................25#
Total savings:..........123#

Manual steering is 37# lighter than power, and a 727 is 75# lighter than an A-833, and who knows how much A/C weighs. Small blocks weigh the same as a slant 6, and the B motors are 95# more than that, so a manual slant 6 or small block with power steering and A/C (guess 60# to 100# for that) can weigh 200# more than a 383 or 528 A/T, mostly all up front. Battery in trunk--that's a 100# shift (50# off front, 50# more in back). If we get ridiculous, a 400 block is about 220#, and 440s are about 230#. An aluminum 440 block is 142#, so there is another 92#.

So, if we compare a porky Slant Six or 318 manual, we get:


Part....................Weight savings
MS......................37#
AT......................75#
AC......................100#
Aluminum block..........92#
Previous parts..........123#
Total...................427#

The original BB was 105# heavier, so there is a 322# lighter big block car if comparing extremes.

 
we fit a 440 in a duster with pro parts headers and power steering. #3 and #5 plugs were a ***** to get to but we did it.
 
Thank you Joe and 375! The more information I have, the better the chance that I can make an informed decision. I'm not rolling in dough right now so this sure isn't going to happen tomorrow, but I like to have as much planned as possible to eliminate any nasty surprises no matter which way I decide to go.

This thread may help any other people out there with B/RB swap in mind too.

BTW 375, I had no idea a manual was so much heavier than a 727!! Surprising information and a eye opener as well. I sure wish I had a line on a cheap aluminum RB, lol.
 
ramcharger said:
I sure wish I had a line on a cheap aluminum RB, lol.
Click to expand...
They are over $5,000. As for the exhaust, I've had friends have good luck with the '68-'69 B-body HP manifolds in A-bodies with 440s and power steering. They used cop boxes since the return line came out at a 90° angle instead of the regular 45°. Can't remember how close it was to the driver's manifold and if that is a requirement. They used the DC K-frame method, and in doing so, the motor should be mocked up first to make sure everything fits. If using the measurements for the DC copy, there may be interference. Read these:

HP manifolds
Make your own DC K-frame
 
Hey Ram, don't forget a 400 stroked to 452, (that's what I'm going to build and park the 383) they're gaint killers, rev and torque all in one. Since you'll be over 500HP the Schmacher's will be the cork so I'd try to latch onto a set of used TTI headers and keep the power steering.

Terry
 
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