Power steering help

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Kar

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I have a 65 Valiant Signet, 273 Commando that I have swapped out the steering box to a Borgeson Power box, and am now trying to figure the pump mounting out. I have a Saginaw pump and brackets I got off a 318, not sure of year, but things do not seem to mount up. Any help would be great, is the water pump different between the 273 and the 318? The lower radiator hose seems to be in the way or maybe I just have it all mixed up.

Thanks for any help or photos, Once the install is complete I will send photos, It will be an early "A" with a small block, headers and power steering.
 
The early 273s (prior to '67 I think) have the water inlet on the driver's side. Opposite from the later and all other LA/Magnums which has them on the pass side. You need the early PS pump and brackets... I have the pump and brackets but still can't find a box or column. Apparently P/S is not too common on these cars.
 
looking at photos that is what I am determining, I guess I am going on the hunt for the early brackets and pump, and will hold on to this other stuff I have for when I swap in a 360 some day.
 
moper said:
The early 273s (prior to '67 I think) have the water inlet on the driver's side. Opposite from the later and all other LA/Magnums which has them on the pass side. You need the early PS pump and brackets... I have the pump and brackets but still can't find a box or column. Apparently P/S is not too common on these cars.
Click to expand...

You can buy the Borgeson box Kar was talking about for around $750. They are modern Delphi 600 steering boxes, with 14:1 steering, modified to fit on older cars. They are longer, so it also requires you to use a coupler (another $130), and you need to shorten your column.

So, if you don't want to continue looking for original, for around $900 you could install a new Borgeson box.

I'm putting on in my 65 Dart.
 
Thanks for the suggestion but I wouldn't want to stray from factory stuff on this car. On top of that I would have a tremendously hard time spending $750 on any steering box for a car with stamped steel control arms and tie rods.
 
Kar,
If you have the early cast-iron water pump (63-70?), I think the only p.s. pump that has brackets to fit is the TRW. Be careful because the later Federal pump looks very similar. The TRW has a long channel on the rear w/ 2 bolts. Bouichillon sells new brackets, as I recall. However, I bet you could mount a Federal pump on TRW brackets by cutting the rear finger short. Why do so? Keep reading.

The other issue is the hoses to the steering gear. Compare your Borgeson box with photos of early gears. As I recall, the TRW pump has an inverted flare outlet, vs the O-ring fitting on Federal (and Saginaw?) pumps. The return hose is also a different size. On factory gears, you can swap the inlet and return fittings to match your hoses. You could also get custom hoses to match made at a hydraulic shop for a bit more cost.

Moper,
You need the early steering gear (63-72 A-body) w/ "small sector shaft". Try to get one with fittings for your pump hoses (read above). You could buy a rebuilt one at rockauto or Autozone and just forfeit the "core charge". If you get a junkyard one, best to rebuild it first. See my post on that.
 
Hi Bill! I thought the car I got my stuff from had a box with a nuique valve assembly on it. The hose fitting didn't have any sharp turn like the later ones do - the valve did. I think a straight one will run into the manifold but I'd love to see some factory examples to double check.
 
These are TRW brackets:

P2010353.jpg


Mind only had one hole in the resevoir:

P2010366.jpg


P2150383.jpg
 
Kar said:
I have a 65 Valiant Signet, 273 Commando that I have swapped out the steering box to a Borgeson Power box, and am now trying to figure the pump mounting out. I have a Saginaw pump and brackets I got off a 318, not sure of year, but things do not seem to mount up. Any help would be great, is the water pump different between the 273 and the 318? The lower radiator hose seems to be in the way or maybe I just have it all mixed up.

Thanks for any help or photos, Once the install is complete I will send photos, It will be an early "A" with a small block, headers and power steering.
Click to expand...

Hi,
I'm having the same problem. I bought a new Borgeson PS box and Saginaw pump from a junk yard 318. I also bought hoses and an expensive coupler for the combination. I need brackets. Did you find any that would fit the Saginaw to the 273 in my 64 dodge dart?

Thanks,
Jim Walsh
 
Jim,
Read post 6. I think there were never brackets to mount a Saginaw or a Federal (aka "Chrysler") pump to the early cast-iron water pump (thru ~1970, lower hose on driver's side), so a TRW pump is the easy option. I know that going the other way is impossible (TRW pump on alum w.p.).

The Saginaw pump is better, so if you really want it, you might adapt the bracket. The main difference is the early w.p. has an ear sticking out for a bolt (TRW pump bracket uses), but that ear may not interfere. It is also thinner, but you could probably add spacers. The Saginaw pump sits lower, so might interfere with your K-frame. Your pulleys may not line up, but a common issue for many swaps, so browse the many photos on FABO.

I put an alum w.p. on my 1965 273, and that caused many issues. One of the biggest is that the fan then sits 1" closer to the radiator, with no room for a fan clutch. Of course, I found I couldn't use my rebuilt TRW pump.
 
The saginaw pump is the one I used on my 69 340 Dart with the early style cast iron water pump that goes to the driver's side of the radiator. Brackets are available. Not sure if Bouchillon carries them or not. They were available until 69, so you should have a wider range to look at.
 
BillGrissom said:
Jim,
Read post 6. I think there were never brackets to mount a Saginaw or a Federal (aka "Chrysler") pump to the early cast-iron water pump (thru ~1970, lower hose on driver's side), so a TRW pump is the easy option. I know that going the other way is impossible (TRW pump on alum w.p.).

The Saginaw pump is better, so if you really want it, you might adapt the bracket. The main difference is the early w.p. has an ear sticking out for a bolt (TRW pump bracket uses), but that ear may not interfere. It is also thinner, but you could probably add spacers. The Saginaw pump sits lower, so might interfere with your K-frame. Your pulleys may not line up, but a common issue for many swaps, so browse the many photos on FABO.

I put an alum w.p. on my 1965 273, and that caused many issues. One of the biggest is that the fan then sits 1" closer to the radiator, with no room for a fan clutch. Of course, I found I couldn't use my rebuilt TRW pump.
Click to expand...

Thanks,
That's what I thought but didn't really want to believe it. Looks like an aluminum WP and radiator.
Jim
 
Not so fast there, Jimmy.

Post 11 says there were Saginaw pumps on engines w/ cast-iron w.p. Might have to go w/ junkyard brackets. But, just because it clears a 1969 K-frame doesn't mean a 1965 will be so lucky. Your engine bay is ~1" narrower. I have never seen a Saginaw pump in a 1965 small-block car. But, check Google Images since the Saginaw is easily identified.
 
Bill:
It appears that Chrysler offered the Saginaw pump on Small blocks that had the cast iron WP from 1967 to 1969. I will check out a local yard and let you know if I have any luck w/ brackets. It wasn't a common option in the day because only girls had PS. On the other hand, if you change the steering ratio to 16:1 and put fat radial tires on the car, it can be pretty tough on an old guy.
Jim
 
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